Need help with Xvalve - will not fire, still holding pressure. How do I depressurize?

Printable View

12-27-2022, 12:29 PM
GlassPancakes

Need help with Xvalve - will not fire, still holding pressure. How do I depressurize?

(I tried posting this thread before and I couldn't seem to find it - so if this is a double post, please feel free to remove.)

So I attempted to tune my new Lvl10 Xvalve with UL-T this weekend and it didn't go well. I started last week by removing all but 3 of the shims in the UL-T on/off (there were 5 present before I removed 2) and I didn't mess with the Lvl10 at all yet - so the carrier/shim set-up in the Powertube was the same as when I received it. I took it out to the field, gassed it up, and while the sear rod is making full contact with the trigger and the trigger will depress, the valve will not cycle. I would have disassembled to put more shims back in... but since the marker won't cycle, I can't depressurize to work on the valve. I tried running the velocity adjuster in the back all the way in in the hopes it would degas out the back, but nothing. Then I tried running it out all the way, so that it was just hanging on by a thread or two, and nothing there as well. I can't disconnect the quick connect because the valve is still under the full 800psi required to operate the valve. I was trying to fix the half-stroking (is that the right term?) that was happening to my marker under rapid fire - it will sputter and seems like it's not fully cycling if I try to fire quickly.

I've had an Automag for 20 something years now and used a Lvl7 Classic valve for all but the last month or so. I've never run into this problem before and I am freaked the hell out by the idea of trying to disassemble under full pressure. How do I degas the marker so I can work on it safely? Can I take it apart under pressure or will I shoot parts across my apartment in doing so?

Any help is deeply appreciated.
12-27-2022, 12:44 PM
luke

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassPancakes

I took it out to the field, gassed it up, and while the sear rod is making full contact with the trigger and the trigger will depress, the valve will not cycle.

You need a gap between the trigger rod and the back of the trigger after the marker is aired up, gap should be about the thickness of a credit card.
12-27-2022, 12:45 PM
GlassPancakes

So there's a good chance that my sear rod is too long? Any idea how to get that fixed while the valve is still under pressure?
12-27-2022, 12:54 PM
luke

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassPancakes

So there's a good chance that my sear rod is too long?

Yes

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassPancakes

Any idea how to get that fixed while the valve is still under pressure?

Have you degassed the marker and removed the tank?
12-27-2022, 12:58 PM
GlassPancakes

Can't degas the marker because it won't cycle and I'm using a Flatline Reg that runs straight into the valve. The on/off on the Flatline is off but because the marker won't cycle, I can't get the air back out of it.
12-27-2022, 01:13 PM
luke

I've never had a system locked up like that and I've never used the Flatline so I dont understand how they work.
Maybe if you push on the bolt tip with a wood dowel or something and maybe get it to vent some pressure(?) Could you maybe loosen an airline fitting(?) Be careful you dont lose and eye or send a fitting flying across the room, truth is I'm a little worried even suggesting that..
12-27-2022, 01:59 PM
GlassPancakes

That's been my fear, too. I've pulled the quick connect with 250psi still in the valve... but never with a fully pressurized valve. I couldn't even get it budge a little. I'm going to try to take the grips off the frame when I get home to see if I can actuate the on/off pin by hand. Hopefully, I can get in there and get it to vent a little.

Man. This problem seems to be a head-scratcher. I do really appreciate your help. Feel like I'm sourcing answers from the tippy-top with you!
12-27-2022, 02:09 PM
luke

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassPancakes

I'm going to try to take the grips off the frame when I get home to see if I can actuate the on/off pin by hand.

That wont do you any good to be honest, try and see if you can get the L10 to vent by pushing on it with a wood dowel or something, sometimes they will vent when you push them back.
12-27-2022, 02:11 PM
GlassPancakes

Alright. I'll give that a shot and let you know. Thank you!
12-27-2022, 02:11 PM
Walker

Remove the trigger from the frame, and allow the rod to fully extend? Or it may give you room to use a set of needlenose pliers and shorten the rod?

Luke: Thoughts? You know mags better than I do...

Walker
12-27-2022, 02:19 PM
luke

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walker

Remove the trigger and allow the rod to fully extend?

I was actually just looking at that myself, wondering if you could drive the trigger pin out with it under pressure(?) It may end up being a bigger disaster or maybe cause damage, again I've never encountered this problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walker

Luke: You know mags better than I do...

I know what I know but I'm far from a tech guru, actually Tuna might have some thoughts on this(?)
12-27-2022, 02:21 PM
luke

Can you post a picture of the marker, it might help to see the full setup?
12-27-2022, 02:22 PM
luke

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walker

Remove the trigger from the frame, and allow the rod to fully extend? Or it may give you room to use a set of needlenose pliers and shorten the rod?Walker

Depending on the grip frame, I was thinking you may be able to pop the trigger rod off
12-27-2022, 02:41 PM
GlassPancakes

1 Attachment(s)

Attachment 103428

It's not the best picture but it's what I have on hand at the moment. My partner is at home so I can have her take another picture if this doesn't show what you need to see.
12-27-2022, 02:47 PM
Tunaman

Just loosen one of the airlines till it leaks out then retape it later.
12-27-2022, 02:49 PM
luke

Actually that does help. With that grip frame I think you can get direct access to the attachment point of the trigger rod in order to remove it from the sear, it is under pressure but you may be able to remove it. I have a replacement rod if it gets damaged.
12-27-2022, 02:50 PM
GlassPancakes

@Tuna: Oh ****. I don't know why that never occurred to me. Superman just literally just recommended the same course of action over on Reddit. I'll give that a shot when I get home.

Sometimes the hardest solutions to come to are also the simplest. Thank you!
12-27-2022, 02:54 PM
Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

Could you maybe loosen an airline fitting(?) Be careful you dont lose and eye or send a fitting flying across the room, truth is I'm a little worried even suggesting that..

suggested
12-27-2022, 03:10 PM
GlassPancakes

Yeah, I'm a fool. lol

Thanks, Walker.
12-27-2022, 04:35 PM
Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassPancakes

Yeah, I'm a fool. lol

Thanks, Walker.

Not a fool friend... I've found myself in the same predicament, the only difference being I had an on/off instead of a Flatline. Hence I was able to get out of it easier...

Now, I always check the clearance when I put a new (to me) gun together, or I am working with a gun that I haven't personally set up. When testing, I always use a quickconnect with a slidecheck (or a Stabli Proconnect) on a remote line. If there are any failures on the gun, I can always fallback to those to safely degas....

Walker
12-27-2022, 04:38 PM
luke

I was going to let the oversight slide :)
12-27-2022, 05:06 PM
GlassPancakes

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

I was going to let the oversight slide :)

I need to let things ruminate before my brain realizes the ideas are there. Sorry, Luke. You are the champ here!

I ended up picking up a couple Valken Proconnects to avoid this predicament in the future. I'm going to try loosening a fitting and see if that works. If it doesn't, I'll be right back here.

Either way, I will let everyone know how things go this evening!
12-27-2022, 05:16 PM
luke

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassPancakes

I need to let things ruminate before my brain realizes the ideas are there. Sorry, Luke.

LOL, no worries, I do the same thing sometimes. :D
12-28-2022, 11:13 AM
GlassPancakes

I wanted to update everyone who so generously donated their time and expertise to helping me figure out how to depressurize my Xvalve. First of all, thank you all! This is the kind of thing I really love about the paintball community: you folks are willing to help out some stranger in distant lands troubleshoot his marker without hesitation. You people are salt of the earth and I so very grateful for all your help. Notable mentions: Luke, Walker, Tuna, Superman (via reddit) and Tim at AGD (via email). Thank you all so much!

I arrived home yesterday and noticed the pressure in the valve had dropped to less than 600psi from the full 800psi it was that morning. So I left it alone in the hopes that the seep would continue... and low and behold, it has! It dropped an additional 120psi while I slept, kick total valve pressure down to around 480-490psi by this morning. So I'm thinking that when I get home from work today, it will be low enough that I should be able to pop the quick connect off by hand.

Thank you all for helping to walk me through this somewhat harrowing experience. I'm glad I didn't have to crack open any of the fittings to let pressure seep through there. I was confident that it would have been successful but I'm just happy I didn't have to go that way. My Valken Proconnects are supposed to arrive tomorrow afternoon and so hopefully, this will never have to go through anything like this again.
12-28-2022, 12:21 PM
going_home

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassPancakes

Attachment 103428

It's not the best picture but it's what I have on hand at the moment. My partner is at home so I can have her take another picture if this doesn't show what you need to see.

Hmm. That looks like a Classic valve not an Xvalve ?
12-28-2022, 12:26 PM
GlassPancakes

100% an XValve. The anodizing has been stripped back to bare aluminum. I like the tuxedo look it gives.
12-28-2022, 06:22 PM
maniacmechanic

Quote:

Originally Posted by going_home

Hmm. That looks like a Classic valve not an Xvalve ?

freakin Conservatives , wrong again ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
12-28-2022, 06:26 PM
GlassPancakes

Quote:

Originally Posted by maniacmechanic

freakin Conservatives , wrong again ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Dude. Don't make this political. Leave that crap at the door.
12-30-2022, 07:54 AM
maniacmechanic

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassPancakes

Dude. Don't make this political. Leave that crap at the door.

Says a guy who just arrived ? , those are the best " conversations " we have around here now
12-30-2022, 11:41 AM
luke

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassPancakes

I will let everyone know how things go

Have you addressed the other problem with the sear rod length?

If you have set of calipers you should start with the Trigger Rod length at 1.985" but it could need fine tuning with the aftermarket trigger. The measurement is less relevant than the actual gap measurement, you need about 1/32"

You measure the rod assembly itself, you dont need to remove the rod from the sear, this just illustrates the two measuring points.

Attachment 103429