X valve problems

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07-03-2016, 08:20 PM
Rambo

X valve problems

Hi guys,

So i'm new to Automags but I previously had an older valve on mine and replaced it with an xvalve.

I played with my new valve all day yesterday and for the most part it was leaking air down the barrel. I finally figured out that oring carrier issue and replaced it with a different one, which seemed to solve the issue. I also put the silver spring in, I think that was a mistake but I thought it would help with leaking air down the barrel.

Anyway, I think I might've been shooting hot but the field I'm at has really lax chrono standards and half the time their chrono's don't even work(I'm not going to name said field).

Anyway, played again on sunday and after about a 1,000 shots I hear a slow leak out the back of the gun, slow leak, but it stops after I loosened the velocity nut. But the guns only firing sporadically, like I pull one shot and then the second one just sort of farts out of the barrel. I try tightening the nut and then my trigger just stops firing completely. I go to take it apart but unfortunately lost the top little oring for the on/off assembly, so I have to order another one, which sucks since I can't really see if lubing it up will fix the gun.

Noticed there was a lot of purple gunk in the spring pack of the regulator but I'm assuming that's just grease. Not sure what the heck happened. I was thinking to go back to the gold short spring instead. It wasn't the air supply, I've got a full tank. So it must be the regulator not providing airflow to the powertube. Maybe I just lube it and it'll work again but I'm kind of afraid I'm doing something stupidly obviously wrong and don't want to mess it up any more.

Any suggestions?
07-03-2016, 08:33 PM
Rambo

Also, related question. Is there any way to release the pressure in the valve if the gun doesn't shoot because the on/off assembly sometimes just comes shooting out of there like a bullet and I know it's coming but not sure how else to break the gun apart? Take off the regulator nut maybe, or could you just unscrew the tank and let the air vent that way?
07-04-2016, 09:26 PM
athomas

You have to remove the air supply when taking the valve out. With the air removed, hold the trigger in and pull the valve out. There might be some residual pressure left in the valve, so be careful that the on-off doesn't shoot out. It usually won't if the pressure is released.

Purple grease on the spring pack is to keep it from rusting. The grease is not an issue in that part of the valve. It is preferred because the oil dries up.

The leak out the back is due to the pressure in the chamber being too high. The stiffer silver spring requires you to use a higher chamber pressure to fire the gun. I suspect the higher pressure required to push the bolt forward exceeded the safety vent pressure of regulator piston assembly.

Leaking air down the barrel is usually a sign of a carrier size that is too loose, or too many shims installed in the powertube. Have you read the level 10 installation guide?

Here it is:

The carriers are sized using lines and dots. Each line represents a 1 and a series of dots represents 0.5. Eg; 2 lines and dots equals size 2.5. Carriers range from size 0 to 3.5 but most people only have from 0 to 2.5 and most new kits have even less.

When tuning your level 10, remove all the shims from the powertube before starting. They don't affect the operation but they can cause false leaks which cause you to use a carrier size that is too tight. Don't put them back when you are done. You shouldn't ever need them.

For carrier sizing:

Find the carrier size that causes the installed oring to fit freely over the bolt stem. The carrier should sit on the bolt stem without moving if the bolt is held in a vertical position. If you tap the valve on a hard surface, the carrier should be loose enough to allow the bolt to move. If you have to force the carrier onto the bolt stem with any force at all, then it is too tight. Install the bolt and valve into the gun. When aired up there should be no leaking. If it leaks, take the carrier out and replace it with the next smaller size. Always use the same white carrier oring in each carrier that you use. It is the orings that you are adjusting. Try it again. You want to use the largest carrier size that does not produce a leak.

Any time that the gun fires and does not reset or short strokes and does not reset, or just chuffs and does not reset, the problem is most likely a carrier that is too tight. Installing shims will not help. Shims only help if the bolt moves, hits an object but does not vent any air, and then cannot reset because the chamber is still fully charged. Most of the time the bolt always moves far enough to expose the vent hole, get rid of excess air, and then reset.

For spring adjustment:

You want to use the bolt spring that allows you to shoot about 20fps above the lowest velocity that the gun will cycle at. So, if you want to use the gun at 280fps, then your desired lower limit of operation is 260fps. Insert your long bolt spring. Turn the velocity adjuster down before you air up the valve. Then gradually turn up the velocity until the gun will cycle. This is your lower velocity. Measure it. If it is above 265fps, then you will need a shorter spring or you will need to clip the one you have (unless you have red one. They are usually in the correct range). If you clip a spring, only clip half a coil at a time and then try it using the same procedure of starting with a low velocity setting. Make sure you put the cut end of the spring towards the bolt. If you have the short spring installed, and the lower range is 30fps below the desired shooting velocity, I wouldn't worry about using a stiffer spring and would just go with the short bolt spring. If it was much lower than that, I would definately clip a long spring to get closer to the desired range.
07-05-2016, 07:58 PM
Cyco-Dude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambo

I also put the silver spring in...

put the gold spring back in, turn the velocity down and re-chrono.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambo

Also, related question. Is there any way to release the pressure in the valve if the gun doesn't shoot because the on/off assembly sometimes just comes shooting out of there like a bullet and I know it's coming but not sure how else to break the gun apart? Take off the regulator nut maybe, or could you just unscrew the tank and let the air vent that way?

uh...yeah. always de-gas and pull the trigger before removing the valve.
07-06-2016, 04:01 PM
Rambo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyco-Dude

put the gold spring back in, turn the velocity down and re-chrono.

uh...yeah. always de-gas and pull the trigger before removing the valve.

YEah, that seems mind numbingly obvious to me now. Before I really looked at the thing and had no idea how to avoid that from happening.
07-11-2016, 10:34 PM
Rambo

Ok, thought I would provide an update, for what it's worth.

First off, I've worked on a tippmann before and they weren't nearly this finicky so apologies if this is too obvious but if there are any new mag owners I think this will help.

1. The level 10, but sometimes other components are especially sensitive to dirt and you can get leaks if there is even a small spec in the wrong place so if you've got leaks clean everything thoroughly. I had some small bits of plastic in the power tube and that caused the level 10 to leak, still might be some in there so I need to check it. It can and will leak with even the most inconsequential looking of debris.

2. Oil, yeah, I know oil is always good but mags literally fail to work at all if they are not oiled regularly. I'd say like every case of paint, 2000 rds. The most suceptiible part is the regulator, the reason why I say this is because the regulator contains a piston that needs to move forward and back on every shot. If it's not well oiled it locks up and you get the leaking out the back and slow recharge I described. This happened after maybe 2,000 shots, straight from the factory. The way the gun is designed it is pretty much guaranteed to blow oil out the front, so keeping the reg piston and on/off valve lubricated is important, power tube/level 10 prob less so but still important.

Also, you gotta apply oil directly in that little hole where the valve pin goes in on the regulator, I put it in the power tube area, did nothing.

Also, gun will sometimes continuously fire, that is definately a sign of something wrong in the on/off assembly. If you get double shots it's gotta be that those two top orings aren't locking into place properly, and might want to try replacing 1 or both.
07-12-2016, 12:13 AM
Laku

Just put few drops of oil in the Asa before playing and dry shot about 20 times without barrel, the air will move the oil through the valve.

The way you describe it the double shots could just be the valve being reactive.
07-12-2016, 06:17 AM
athomas

That little hole in the side of the valve really doesn't need to be oiled. Oil in the ASA is the only real way to cycle oil through every part of the valve. The orings only need to be wet. Excess will be blown out the front. Cycle the valve until no oil residue comes out. Then put the barrel on. Once a broken-in oring is wet, you should be able to shoot several cases of paint in a single day without adding oil. The key is to keep the valve clean. Once the orings are broken in, everything will just work fine.
07-12-2016, 09:39 AM
Rambo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laku

Just put few drops of oil in the Asa before playing and dry shot about 20 times without barrel, the air will move the oil through the valve.

The way you describe it the double shots could just be the valve being reactive.

My setup is the one where the tank is positioned below the front handle and a single line connects the back of the gun, I also have the ASA doped in place so I can't really remove any parts of it except where the tank connects. I feel like maybe with that setup the oil might just sit in the bottom of the ASA and the force of the air might not be enough to force it into the gun, don't have xray vision so I can't really tell.
07-12-2016, 10:12 AM
Rambo

Quote:

Originally Posted by athomas

That little hole in the side of the valve really doesn't need to be oiled. Oil in the ASA is the only real way to cycle oil through every part of the valve. The orings only need to be wet. Excess will be blown out the front. Cycle the valve until no oil residue comes out. Then put the barrel on. Once a broken-in oring is wet, you should be able to shoot several cases of paint in a single day without adding oil. The key is to keep the valve clean. Once the orings are broken in, everything will just work fine.

I don't mean the side, I mean the hole that is exposed when you unscrew the regulator off the back. I'm kind of adverse to putting oil in the ASA for the reason mentioned above.
07-12-2016, 03:09 PM
Cyco-Dude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambo

I don't mean the side, I mean the hole that is exposed when you unscrew the regulator off the back. I'm kind of adverse to putting oil in the ASA for the reason mentioned above.

nothing wrong with putting it in the asa and blowing it through the gun. that's how it's been done for over two decades. if you're using macroline, you can just disconnect it from the valve fitting and put it in there.
07-13-2016, 12:09 AM
Nobody

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambo

Ok, thought I would provide an update, for what it's worth.

First off, I've worked on a tippmann before and they weren't nearly this finicky so apologies if this is too obvious but if there are any new mag owners I think this will help.

Tippmanns are the AK of paintball. You can toss them around, throw them in the mud, use them as a hammer or shovel and they will still work, sometime better. The mag is a highly precision piece of machinery that is robust but yet delicate. Unless something is wrong, you do not have to take them apart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambo

1. The level 10, but sometimes other components are especially sensitive to dirt and you can get leaks if there is even a small spec in the wrong place so if you've got leaks clean everything thoroughly. I had some small bits of plastic in the power tube and that caused the level 10 to leak, still might be some in there so I need to check it. It can and will leak with even the most inconsequential looking of debris.

The tolerances in a mag are fine. So a spec of dirt can cause it leak. They do not like dirt. So making sure the valve is clean and clear is utmost to proper usage. Think of it like a watch(mechanical, not digital). It neds to be clean and put into proper order so it works properly. If not, it won't work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambo

2. Oil, yeah, I know oil is always good but mags literally fail to work at all if they are not oiled regularly. I'd say like every case of paint, 2000 rds. The most suceptiible part is the regulator, the reason why I say this is because the regulator contains a piston that needs to move forward and back on every shot. If it's not well oiled it locks up and you get the leaking out the back and slow recharge I described. This happened after maybe 2,000 shots, straight from the factory. The way the gun is designed it is pretty much guaranteed to blow oil out the front, so keeping the reg piston and on/off valve lubricated is important, power tube/level 10 prob less so but still important.

No, you are over oiling it. You really only need about 3 drops of oil every other or every 3rd case, if that. If you do not take apart the valve, then you really don't need to oil the gun after every case. This is not a spool where it can only work when gobbed with lube.

The reg piston needs to be packed with grease only when its dry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambo

Also, you gotta apply oil directly in that little hole where the valve pin goes in on the regulator, I put it in the power tube area, did nothing.

Nope. Put 3 drops of oil(KC Troublefree or Outkast; though any synthetic oil will work) in the ASA or into the air input to the valve. You do not need to apply oil any other place. Airing up and shooting the gun, will distribute the oil to the appropriate places it needs. Shooting the gun will remove excess oil crom the gun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambo

Also, gun will sometimes continuously fire, that is definately a sign of something wrong in the on/off assembly. If you get double shots it's gotta be that those two top orings aren't locking into place properly, and might want to try replacing 1 or both.

That is because you are holding the trigger and its possibly you are getting reactive trigger bounce.