Tac_One, AGD isn't Fooling Around Any More>>

[Mango]

I would say from $400.00 - $600.00

Edit: page 2!!1

[cabldawg]

Tom,
is there any chance that some Tac one's could be ready in time for Throwdown?

[judster]

i only play scenarios, and i see the market growing...i think tom is making a very smart move here. i love the idea of having a scenario mag. when you are out there for 24+ hrs at a time, its good to have a marker thats light, and will not fail ya, and shoots like a dream. ive always been an AGD preson, and to see tom support the part of paintball that i love, i will only support the person(company) that supports me...these prices are pretty good. the last 2 scenario games ive played ive had gen3 night vision and i would love to have a gun to mount it to....go get em tom!!!1

[Caffiend]

Not sure on prices, but I pretty much agree with the put it in direct competition with the A-5 ($280+), M98 ($132 or $350 for the stealth package), and the VFT Cocker ($675)
So you have quite a range for prices, but I figure scenario players would upgrade the tippmans at least a little bit so add $100 to each of those. If we could undercut the VFT buy $150 to $200 I think that'd be a real good idea.
And hopefully you sell the bodies for fairly cheap (about same price as ULE's I hope, but probably closer to Chord bodies)
Now all we need is them to reintroduce the Sydarms

[Meph]

Originally posted by AGD
AO,

Again I turn to my team on AO to help us set the "get excited" price for this marker.

AGD

Tac-One specs....
X valve
custom milled slug body vert. feed
Intelliframe with rubber grips
J&J cocker barrel
ULT trigger
LvL 10
Flat black only

What would be my highest price? Being a dealer I can give a guesstimate of what would be my highest price. $750ish.

Now what would I think could make this take the Scenario world by storm, yet won't make you guys hurt financially (meaning at the very least break even). I'd have to guess $500 range in price, tops.

Many people are lowballing asking for the dealer price of the X-valve alone! That's just completely impossible I would have to imagine. I could not see AGD selling this for $300. By heavens if they do I'm buying 3! But I'm not seeing it. Based on what my cost is and AGD's profit margin I could see this being $500 dollars. And that, for what you're getting, is one hell of a bargain. Especially considering the mag I custom built is almost identical yet cost some more than $500.

You didn't ask, and I was too lazy to read anything beyond your first post! Just skimmed. But for the solo body by itself, I'd pay an extra $25 onto the current ULE mainbody price for the Tac-One body. So, probably customer price being around $175. For the body.




Bottom line. Market price I could see. Main Body alone, $150-$175. Tac-One package $500-$550.

[judster]

Originally posted by Caffiend
Now all we need is them to reintroduce the Sydarms

my thoughts exactly...i have one already but would love to see them being made again...right not the best pistol out for scenario is the zeus...if AGD could get the tac one out at a good pric then reinterduce the sydarm they would have the scenario market almost cornered....

[Lohman446]

Originally posted by AGD
AO,
Tac-One specs.
X valve
custom milled slug body vert. feed
Intelliframe with rubber grips
J&J cocker barrel
ULT trigger
LvL 10
Flat black only

If you sell the gun for the $350 that some have suggested I will buy the SOB for parts.

Current prices from AGD store

X-valve $325 no trade in, its what we are discussing
Intelliframe $115
ULE Trigger kit $47

Right there is $487 - you still have a body on there $115? - a rail $40?, a decent barrel $30?, sear, screws, etc. $10.

That puts us up to $672 or so.

Its a package deal, a top of the line scenario marker about $550 is a good deal - may I suggest now though get rid of the X-valve, make it an upgrade, and sell classic valves on the thing and lower the price accordingly.

Frankly, $400 would be a steal, and you would see a lot of non-scenario players buy them and throw a ULE body on them for a speedball marker - I would.

I beleive those are steals... but your going to have a hard time competing with the lower end Tippman at that price, especially when you can find them with a flatline barrel for $200 to $250 if I recall.

Edit: I realize that we are not comparing apples to apples, but are scenario players really looking for the rate of fire that the X-valve gives them?

[Hawkeye]

Tom,
Are there any plans of selling just the body? I would love to pick up that body to put on the emag so I can mount some stuff when I need it at these games.

[Meph]

Yes the body will be for sale all on its own (or so Tom has informed on previous occasions).

And I know I'll be buying one!

[GoatBoy]

I wouldn't pay any more for this thing than I would for a similarly configured RTP.

It seems the special thing about this is the body. You can put accessories on it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I can see someone savvy coming out with accessory rails that can screw into the holes on a RTP's rail (a la foregrip/sight mounts) for much less, and eating your lunch on this thing.

It seems that what "sells" to the scenario players is the "look", and in this case, the tac-one doesn't look any more realistic than any other paintball gun, aside from the all-matte-black finish. The tac-one probably won't be able to compete if someone makes a cheap accessory as I mentioned above, because I don't see it winning on looks.

I have no idea what's backing this motivation to win over "scenario" ball; you can point to some scenario games and such, but that's like a once-in-a-while thing. The regulars I know aren't heavy into the scenario aura. I hope that in the anti-tournament backlash, there isn't confusion between recball and scenario ball. The difference between the two being that the latter likes to "dress up" more for the occasion, and this seems to extend to the gun, not just camo.

While I'm more than happy to see a more aesthetically "serious" gun design, I'm going to have to be a naysayer on this one. I hope the brains going into this one aren't sapping resources from other projects...











And now, I will begin incoherently mumbling.



*mumble mumble smart move mumble mumble make a new sydarm and sell that mumble mumble make other accessory rails that screw into the rtp holes like say a hopper clamp mumble mumble*

[Cilio - Knightmare Tango]

I agree that the ULT should NOT be put in this gun. When the ULT was talked about it was mentioned that it was easier to short stroke and would take some practice. You want to make this as fun a gun as possible and not frustrating to a player who doesn't have the patience to deal with the ULT. It is more than reasonable to expect it to be an upgrade for those that want it.

I'm not sure whether the J&J barrel should be included. Many people have barrels already or barrel kits and others prefer to make their own selection. It would cut additional $ off the price.

As far as price:
Low end $350
high end $500

The Worr Games VF-Tactical Autococker can be gotten for $650, I would go significantly lower than this.

[abaez]

While I already have a mag and I love it, if I were looking at this I think the best price for me and AGD is prolly somewhere around $500.

But I would like some customization. ULE trigger or no ULE trigger. The option to be able to buy just a regular ule body instead of the tac one body would also be a great option. Let's say no ULT and just a regular ULE body.. lowers the price what.. $100 bux maybe?

Plus you also have to add to the fact that many scenario people with tippmans w/ CO2. If they buy a tac one they're gonna have to buy a compressed air tank. $500 + a compressed air tank is probably more than some people can chew. Add options to take away some of the burden (no ule trigger, regular ule body etc) and I'm sure it would sell well.

[wish-had-a-mag]

TK already said on another thread that the price would be the same as an RT pro(530 on pbgear), and then he offered the wholesale pricing, so i'd say nthat goes 300-450.

[Kevmaster]

I know you said you wouldn't be doing dealer stuff with this, but I'm confident I could have moved them (when I ran the store) bi-weekly to monthly at $400-$500. So, I'd say $400-500 would be a EXCELLENT RANGE.

However, I have to think, as an ex-store manager, I'd be awfully unhappy if AGD started selling a product factory direct that was (perhaps) NICER than a marker I sold (made by the same company) that was LOWER than your MSRP on that marker (the RT Pro). That is to say: If you sold it lower than the MSRP on teh RT Pro, I'd be unhappy if i was still a dealer

[WARPED1]

$250 low
$500 high
I'd buy one for Spplat games for sure!

[Aegis]

how about a basic configuration to get the price point down for the masses, and a "custom shop" version? Looking at how Tippmann markets the A5 and M98 in particular. Their pro shop configurations seem pricy to me, but a lot of people are going for it.

Maybe a carbon fiber grip/classic valve/non ULT for the entry level, and pro shop configurations with all the ULE goodness. Not a scenario player, but it seems to me that they go for appearances more than rate of fire enhancements.

Hey - I just noticed - Tippmann's web site has a flatline image for "nitrogen accessories" in their pro shop.

Ok, my prices:
Low end - about $75 more than a TKO, w/o the ULE parts
High end - depends, what is the RT PRO going to go for?

[judster]

Originally posted by GoatBoy

I have no idea what's backing this motivation to win over "scenario" ball; you can point to some scenario games and such, but that's like a once-in-a-while thing. The regulars I know aren't heavy into the scenario aura. I hope that in the anti-tournament backlash, there isn't confusion between recball and scenario ball. The difference between the two being that the latter likes to "dress up" more for the occasion, and this seems to extend to the gun, not just camo.

i dont think tom is trying to win over anyone here....the market is there in the scenario world. for such a long time the 'big guys' have over looked the scenario aspect and focoused more on tourney. now as scenario is growing they are taking notice(tippmann, WDP, AGD,...) and there is pretty much a big scenario every month across the US. MXS puts on 12-14 games a year, and thats not mentioning all the others(viper, bblackcat, mmp, opforce,...)these games easily reach over a 100 people. the last MXS game in purcell, OK reached 275, as opposed to last years turnout of under 150 at the same location. whats happening is there are more and more good scenario games happening each year, and the market is growing. why shouldnt AGD want to back that? i for one am thankful that this is happening, and wish tom the best of luck in the scenario world.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by hostage
Hrmm...I don't really see a market for this, thats just my opinion. It seems like a lot of people are just into speedball.

Maybe a low end price 450. Duno about a highend 700ish?
-Doron

Only 3% of the 7 million players a year play "tournament" style(speedball), theres a huge market for scenario guns.

[Marek]

Originally posted by Kevmaster
However, I have to think, as an ex-store manager, I'd be awfully unhappy if AGD started selling a product factory direct that was (perhaps) NICER than a marker I sold (made by the same company) that was LOWER than your MSRP on that marker (the RT Pro). That is to say: If you sold it lower than the MSRP on teh RT Pro, I'd be unhappy if i was still a dealer

I am not a store manager, but I was thinking the same thing. Also, wouldn't the resale value of X-valve drop? Or the resale value of the guns (Classic, RTP etc.)themselves drop? I am far from a business major, so I could be very well wrong. I would love to see this thing take off and sell like crazy, but wouldn't the overall big picture suffer? Just my rant.

[GoatBoy]

Originally posted by WARPED1
Only 3% of the 7 million players a year play "tournament" style(speedball), theres a huge market for scenario guns.

Woohoo! Actual numbers!




Where'd you get the numbers?


What are you basing your market share on?

[dinger]

just exactly what are the specs on this gun??

[AutomagRT1483]

$350 - $550, just let me know where I can send the money.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by GoatBoy



Woohoo! Actual numbers!




Where'd you get the numbers?


What are you basing your market share on?

Official results posted in APG or WARPIG(can't remember which).

[spacedtedybear]

750-high
450-low

[Meph]

Where can you get numbers? Well that's only for national events, also add in all the local tournaments. But then again APG isn't exactly what I personally consider reliable. They shall never, in my life, live down that review they gave to the RamRod Barrel! Shows their caliber.


Now what would I personally have to guess is the number of official Tournament players to Recball players. Mind you Scenarios and Big games fit into Recball, along with recreational speedball that is not a tournament. So your average weekend warrior who only plays speedball is still under Recball.

My numbers take 'em or leave 'em.

Tournament : 5%
Recball : 95%



How could I get that figure? Just WAG? Nope. Look at the numbers. If there are indeed 8.5 million people a year who play paintball, even if it's just once, how many of those do you think even have tournaments to go to? Take your roster from NPPL, NXL, PSP.... that's only a couple thousand players tops! A couple thousand out of the 8.5 million is not even scratching the surface. Add in Millenium Series, Pan Am, and all the locals. Still that's only several THOUSAND. Not even 1 million yet, not even close! Even with all the 50-dollar entry fee, only 3 team showing up events!

So that leaves... lets round that to 8million. 8mil play recball only. Out of that with all the concept fields popping in and players moving to those gradually, that's a few hundred thousand that play strictly speedball.

The rest, let's just say 6million (I'm low-ballin here), play in the woods. Or even woods and speedball both. But no tournament. These are your average, run-of-the-mill players that drive this sport. These recballers are what keep paint prices as low as they are, keep sales up as high as they are, and what keep this industry alive!

Believe it or not if tournaments left today all together the only thing the paintball world would lose is the people who get to try out all the nifty new gadgets first. That's it really. Financially the industry would be in fine shape.

HOWEVER if all the recballers instantly left.... paintball would crumble.


So who here is the REAL market? Those few thousand who play tournaments? Or those few MILLION that drive the sport!


Don't give me that "Tom kissin ***" or "Win over" bull****. He's just smart enough to know what the market is now. YOU obviously aren't, but at least people who know the real facts know.


This is in NO way about Tourney VS Recball, which is better. If you think that's what this is about then please re-read because you lost the point entirely. It's about what the market is, what the majority of the market wants, and what market will supply the largest demand.

[Cilio - Knightmare Tango]

Over 160 games scenario/big games are listed on scenariopaintballcalendar.com alone for 2003.

[WARPED1]

No, my numbers come from a poll of all types of players in the US, and result was 3% for speedball type games.

[judster]

Originally posted by Cilio - Knightmare Tango
Over 160 games scenario/big games are listed on scenariopaintballcalendar.com alone for 2003.

hey dave you dont happen to have the number of games from last year do ya? i can almost say that 160 is double from last year. and that,im sure will grow in 04.

[dinger]

what's a Tac One

[ChucktheMAGician]

Most people seem to be giving good prices. I think the ULT and LX may be a bit for current non-mag owners to learn at once. Lx can be frustrating enough but then put the ULT in there and chuff a few and you've got some mad customers that are gonna complain. Has anyone mentioned whether the bodies will be sold seperately?!

--OK after reading page 2 most of what I thought was already posted

Oh and about scenario players vs. speedball players. Wouldn't on average the scenario player be older, thus having a larger amount of disposable income?!!