20 bps classic valve

**flyingpootang** · 08-04-2006, 05:19 AM

Just to put it out there I used a bone stock L7 classic valve, well stock with the addition of a RT on/off .712 pin and a .225 power tube spacer. I got 20 bps without drop off with a Xmoded 1.7 emag frame set on full 20bps. To clairify I heard no drop off due to it was shooting so fast. I'm shure if you did a sound pulse test it would be more accurate on the differances of the pulse heights. I haven't tried it any faster, because I ran out of air. If anyone is in the process of building the next supermag on a budget , you might want to double think on keeping the old classic around......

**the mag guy** · 08-04-2006, 06:45 AM

no other mods to the valve? nice! I've put an RT on off in a classic before and liked the results.

**Pneumagger** · 08-04-2006, 07:11 AM

I call shens. Also, the valve return is extremely light with the RT on off, how did the emag plunger return well?

I have run a classic with an emag on off in it and co2 up to 14 cps in a pneumatic mag.

**Beemer** · 08-04-2006, 09:56 AM

I call shens.

No offense, but where ya been?

20bps, Classic, Hyperframe. Vids from here.

https://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196472

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/HitechHyper1.avi

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/HitechHyper2.avi

Originally Posted by Hitech

That is a stock minimag. The tank is a preset PMI 68/3K. It has a level 10 bolt with the short spring (the middle & long spring will not work). The on/off is the centerflag on/off with their "long" pin.

https://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=200810

https://www.automags.org/forums/showt...ght=hyperframe

**flyingpootang** · 08-04-2006, 03:48 PM

Beemer: Yeah seen that, but it's hidden in there. I decided to make my own thread so it may get more attention..

Pneumagger: The e plunger worked great. A little shorter than the RT, which gives you shorter/lighter trigger..

**pump** · 08-08-2006, 06:44 AM

what kind of rock have i been under?????

WOW....i wonder if older mags can do the same

**flyingpootang** · 08-08-2006, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by pump

what kind of rock have i been under?????

WOW....i wonder if older mags can do the same

They can with a e/spyder/hyper frame, software, and board

**pump** · 08-08-2006, 04:30 PM

excellent..i was thinking i might have to bore out my A.I.R. Valve to On-Off port, the On-Off to Dump Chamber, and deepen the groove around the Reg Seat, to get a faster ROF and Recharge.

so if this mag is doing 20 bps....and doing it well, can it shoot faster??????

i cant wait for my new pin to some in!!!!

**flyingpootang** · 08-08-2006, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by pump

excellent..i was thinking i might have to bore out my A.I.R. Valve to On-Off port, the On-Off to Dump Chamber, and deepen the groove around the Reg Seat, to get a faster ROF and Recharge.

so if this mag is doing 20 bps....and doing it well, can it shoot faster??????

i cant wait for my new pin to some in!!!!

I'm shure it can and remember the valve is stock/non modified. I wish I could test it to a higher bps, but I sold my pumgmag to robbiesyoufriend. I don't think 25bps is out of the question, so if anyone has a classic laying around try it out....

**pump** · 08-08-2006, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by flyingpootang

I'm shure it can and remember the valve is stock/non modified.

yeah but older AIR valved mags have smaller ports than newer Classic valves

**flyingpootang** · 08-08-2006, 08:46 PM

If you are going to drill into the reg portion make shure you don't hit the threads..

**pump** · 08-08-2006, 08:51 PM

oh hell no....im gonna send it in if i can to someone

sorry for the thread jack this is off topic

**flyingpootang** · 08-08-2006, 09:04 PM

Not at all. All info on how to make it work is welcome

**athomas** · 08-10-2006, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Pneumagger

I call shens. Also, the valve return is extremely light with the RT on off, how did the emag plunger return well?

I have run a classic with an emag on off in it and co2 up to 14 cps in a pneumatic mag.

I think it is quite possible. The emag on-off pin has enough top area to allow adequate return pressure for the solenoid. Also, the xmod allows us to reduce the dwell time to a smaller value which also increases the amount of time allowed for the valve to recharge.

I say good job.

**Asym** · 08-11-2006, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by pump

excellent..i was thinking i might have to bore out my A.I.R. Valve to On-Off port, the On-Off to Dump Chamber, and deepen the groove around the Reg Seat, to get a faster ROF and Recharge.

so if this mag is doing 20 bps....and doing it well, can it shoot faster??????

i cant wait for my new pin to some in!!!!

You shouldn't need to do any of this. Theres been threads about how the classics recharge rate is affected by the input, meaning the reg will recharge faster with higher input pressures. There used to be custom shops that would do these services in the past but with no real proof it did anything. All internal ports in the AIR valve are still larger than the on/off oring.

I run a ULT which has an even smaller o-ring and theres no drop off at 16bps, no clue what my max BPS would be since I run an egg and don't trust it to go faster. I still shoot at 16bps when my tank has less than its normal output of 850PSI and theres no drop off, I shoot that speed all the way down to around 500PSI.

**Pneumagger** · 08-11-2006, 11:36 AM

most of the air flow in an xvalve does not pass through the ULT small oring top. In a classic it would have to.

**warpfeedmod** · 08-11-2006, 11:52 AM

wow. you know, there are those that dis AGD and say the Mag is dead, but show me another mechanical marker with a 10+ year old valve that can do 20 bps.

**LiveWire** · 08-11-2006, 12:06 PM

so i can go buy an RT on/off and slam it in my classic valve?

now if only that jumping face would stand still...
but seriously, no mods? just drop an RT on/off in?

**Asym** · 08-11-2006, 01:54 PM

most of the air flow in an xvalve does not pass through the ULT small oring top. In a classic it would have to.

I thought all air still passed through the on/off even in the RT style valves, but it slam filled with unregulated air hence the reactive. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

but show me another mechanical marker with a 10+ year old valve that can do 20 bps.

The tippmann valve design hasn't changed in at least 15+ years, just the packaging for the different markers it goes in. Same goes for the cocker and spyders and clones. The limiting factor was, most of us couldn't pull off 20+ with our fingers. The other limiting factors have been the feed systems, electronics, industry safty limits, and for the electro markers the phneumatic solenoids.

so i can go buy an RT on/off and slam it in my classic valve?

most people recommend you use a RT style on/off instead of a ULT in the classic. Its smaller diameter than a classic on/off gives a lighter pull, but not too light like a ULT might be in a classic valve.

**afortuna** · 08-11-2006, 01:56 PM

We Gold waved the video last night. It reached 20BPS. It was as low as 10BPS, but didn't appear to have any problems getting to and staying at 20BPS.

**flyingpootang** · 08-11-2006, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by afortuna

We Gold waved the video last night. It reached 20BPS. It was as low as 10BPS, but didn't appear to have any problems getting to and staying at 20BPS.

Great to here you made a video if you cold post it somewhere that would be great, so others could view it . I'm shure it could go higher than 20bps without drop off.

LiveWire: Yes all you need is a RT type on/off to make it work. I used a .712 pin common to the emag RT on/off. Drop Rogue, Tuna, or Logic a email and I'm shure they can hook you up with the on/off and a couple of different size pins.....

Thanks to everyone who has posted in this thread and for all their knowledge on this matter. This is what sets AO apart from the rest....

**athomas** · 08-11-2006, 02:46 PM

I'm going to add a bit to what Asym said.

Originally Posted by Asym

I thought all air still passed through the on/off even in the RT style valves, but it slam filled with unregulated air hence the reactive. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct.

Originally Posted by Asym

The tippmann valve design hasn't changed in at least 15+ years, just the packaging for the different markers it goes in. Same goes for the cocker and spyders and clones. The limiting factor was, most of us couldn't pull off 20+ with our fingers. The other limiting factors have been the feed systems, electronics, industry safty limits, and for the electro markers the phneumatic solenoids.

I think the original mag reference was with respect to stability at high rates of fire. However, even some of these other guns have gotten much better at high rates of fire than they had previously been. I don't think the mag stability holds as much superiority as it once did. Its simplicity still reigns though.

Originally Posted by Asym

most people recommend you use a RT style on/off instead of a ULT in the classic. Its smaller diameter than a classic on/off gives a lighter pull, but not too light like a ULT might be in a classic valve.

The RT on-off works quite well in a classic since the top diameter is the same diameter as the classic. This allows the valve to maintain a consistent recharge with the reduced pull force due to the smaller bottom diameter. The problem the ULT has is that the top diameter is smaller as well. The lower pressure or the AIR valve combined with the smaller diameter top means a significantly reduced return force. This is why the ULT suffers in the AIR valve.

**Beemer** · 05-28-2015, 01:50 AM

Thought it got lost. Now its back.

Hitech how long is that Pin.

**Nobody** · 05-28-2015, 02:46 AM

Holy necropost. Beemer, this is from 2006...

**Ando** · 05-28-2015, 09:27 AM

Someone is trying to live his "younger years".

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