So who has it?

[Beemer]

and how do you know?

The MOST consistent gun at FPS. For to long all it has been about is BPS. What do they tell you and how do they PROVE it. {they dont} All I see or hear is this gun is really consistant.
How do you know, what proof or data do you see? How would you prove it?

Ya I know, I have heard it all before. Why do I ask? It is insignificant. They are all close enough that it doesnt matter. Plus or minus WHAT?? Five FPS, that surely is significant in my book if you want to talk accuracy with a ROUND projectile.

What is the FPS on EVERY BALL at 15 BPS or 10 BPS. Do you have a chrono that will tell you that. Put it on FA and tell me what the FPS is on every ball in one second. I will bet large it is significant.

I have a gun that will shoot plus or minus one at one BPS. Want to buy it??????

[gunangel]

i holeheartedly agree all you hear from reviews is "it looks good, it shoots fast, it is consistent" what's the point of having a marker that can't hit the same spot more than once. most accurate/consistant marker i've seen is an iron man timmy shooting + or - 2 all day at the chrono. well broken in regs are hard to beat. other than that is my triple regulated cocker pump. can't out shoot it so the slow recharge isn't bad but dang it if it ain't consistant.

[Ruler_Mark]

DXS silver, matched SS freak insert, DW 14in barrel, dynaflow, sidewinder, 04 viking with STD lpr and stock tornado valve. well broken in.

279,279,281,280,278,279,280

On rec paint I see +/- 3 with that gun.

On my vlm(aka cocker) pump with rec paint, sidewinder, 12in tightbore javalin, aka internals, dynaflow, midgit'd with cut hammer spring. well broken in

278,275,283,279 forget the rest

On my FEP quest stock internals, 2 Liter, dynaflow. well broken in, 14in DW freak SS insert matched

270,285,279,278,271



On a un well kept 03 viking, 2 liter, std lpr, stock internals, dynaflow

268-285 (was a loong time ago) rec paint


AKA revenge v2 cocker, sidewinder, aka internals, ccm 3 way & ram, kapp lpr, inline slider, dye ul 10in .684, dynaflow. waynes world grand finale 08 paint

274-278


My old tiger mag use to put out +/- 4 on rec paint, never tried on premium with the same DW and tank as 04 vik.




It is ALL about tolerances, tolerances can be worn off case 03 vik above vs 04.



I have own a plethora of cockers, had a stock 04 mech that did +/- 3 with rec paint and a e trilly that did +/- 12. Built a MQ one from sratch that did +/- <1 on average but if it tried todo over 6-7 bps It would lose that, I could tune it to go 18bps +/- 4.

[drewkroeker]

I have a gun that will shoot plus or minus one at one BPS. Want to buy it??????

What type of gun is this?

For the record, no, I am not interested in buying it unless its a g-force mag or the new 09 pump by CCM.

[PsychoBaller]

My Orange 04 Viking got 277, three times in a row at the chrono once... gots witnesses too!,

[BigEvil]

All of those chrono readings you guys are posting, are from single shots. Im interested in what the shots are doing during a fast string. We can shoot 10-15 bps, in a 1 sec string of say 10 shots, what is every single ball doing?

We dont really know do we?

[punkncat]

I think a pact timer will give you BPS as well as shot to shot velocity in a string, or the highest shot in the string...not sure exactly. I know they have a way of seeing with the equipment "they" are currently using. It was in reply to some cheater software that came out a few years ago that was raising velocity in ramping.

At any rate, of what I COULD test, honestly I would have to say that my Xvalved mag(s) were some of the most inconsistant markers I have ever owned. I have always questioned the "method" for chronoing (RT) mags and in my mind have always seen it as sort of a cheat as well. I could easily chrono 20 or so BPS lower than I knew it was going to shoot on field using the "method" as opposed to pulling it "normally".

Of the markers I currently own, my Mini is reliably one of the most consistant. It is commonly +/- 2 BPS over the chrono with most any grade of paint.

[drewkroeker]

I have also found fluctuations when chrono'ing my mags. But they still seem to put my shots where I want them to go. When it warms up and I can get to a field I will put my excal through its paces and see how it compares.

PS: How much of a range do you guys get when chrono'ing an RT mag ie increased velocity at high bps? On my RT Pro I could never shoot that fast so I didn't worry too much about it. With my pneumag I am definitely able to use a lot more of the valve's speed which would definitely heat it up faster.

[chafnerjr]

I think we're going to need mythbusters style high speed camera's to answer this one. I don't know of any chrono that log's velocities of multiple rounds over a specific period of time (at least that we can use). The cheapest way would be to slow down video or have a high speed recording of paint traveling through the air measured against some sort of measuring device... If I had a decent video camera I'd try it... but I don't. Perhaps I can rectify that.

[MeÐiCX]

Do we really want to know?? Shouldn't we just let sleeping dogs ly??

I'd like to know. I would think you'd get some shoot down shooting 10+bps.

[tech-chan]

Ice Epic. I have less than 2 fps upswing and down swing in any stream of shots.

[behemoth]

My 07 borg was known to be 278 or 279 with good paint.

+/- 1 would count as pretty good, no?

My droid was was around +/- 3 with shotty paint. Then i sold it. New one, we'll have to see...

[Thotograph]

My 05 Alien has been deadly consistent as of late. Chrono'd +/-1 at Waynes World for the finale and also the last time I took her out. Actually the other weekend I saw it shoot 3 balls the same speed while chronoing (281, 279, 279, 279, 280). Running a AKA SW with long top, stock LPR, bottles used were a 70iReg running the HP piston at Waynes and a DXS LP 48ci 4.5k air sys more recently, stock alien barrel both times, and the paint was formula13 last weekend and empire engage at Waynes. Both paint varieties rolled through smoothly. I think the regs are really starting to come into their own b/c lately the thing has shot lights out consistent. I mean its always been a good shooter playing wise but now the numbers are impressive too.

I also saw my all stock quest chrono with very solid numbers at Waynes (+/-2). Mark was using that gun. Setup was all stock pneumatics with a LP Crossfire tank.

I've noticed my Vikings to be hit or miss. I've seen them do +/-1 and I've also seen them do +/-10 or more. All depends on the condition of the ram (oring inside ram is critical) and the regs. As for mags I find them to be average on consistency. My emag does ok there. My Revenge V2 round body is the most consistent cocker I've shot but atm I can't remember what kind of numbers it did last time out. Maybe I'll run her at Blanding this weekend.

[neppo1345]

I'm confused, is this meant to be some sort of challenge or something?

[Beemer]

All of those chrono readings you guys are posting, are from single shots. Im interested in what the shots are doing during a fast string. We can shoot 10-15 bps, in a 1 sec string of say 10 shots, what is every single ball doing?

We dont really know do we?

[punkncat]

Here ya go Beemer. With this you can go and test all you want.

Not only does it time shots as a competative timer, but it is also a chronograph with easy to use review settings on both timing as well as velocity and can be reviewed on a shot to shot basis.

I believe the site said they were selling for about $190.

[BlueDragonX]

If I'm firing single shots (well under 10bps), I want each to successive shot to go where the last shot did if I'm aiming at the same thing. If I'm spraying (up to 10bps or more) it's accuracy through volume - I want a little bit of spread for the shotgun effect, you know?

So I could care less what the consistency is at high rates of fire as long as I've got lower speed shot to shot consistency. Any common chrono can tell me that.

[MANN]

Five FPS, that surely is significant in my book if you want to talk accuracy with a ROUND projectile.

I have a gun that will shoot plus or minus one at one BPS. Want to buy it??????

+- 1 at 1bps is good.


I am assuming that you are tring to lead to the fact that you own a FN303, and use your new "sniper" rounds in it, and are seeing great numbers over the chrono.

I have seen several s6s that can do +-1 at 1bps, and are verry accurate. they also only shuck out .03 a second

I am going to try to make it to TBIII. I hope you will bring this marker with you.

[Beemer]

Here ya go Beemer. With this you can go and test all you want.

Not only does it time shots as a competative timer, but it is also a chronograph with easy to use review settings on both timing as well as velocity and can be reviewed on a shot to shot basis.

I believe the site said they were selling for about $190.

Well thanks but been there done that, and in fact talked to them on the phone.

It will read velocity on ONE[1] SPS. when I asked about reading velocity [FPS] on say eight[8]
shots in one second, I was told they dont have a way to do that and dont know anybody that does.

+- 1 at 1bps is good.


I am assuming that you are tring to lead to the fact that you own a FN303, and use your new "sniper" rounds in it, and are seeing great numbers over the chrono.

I have seen several s6s that can do +-1 at 1bps, and are verry accurate. they also only shuck out .03 a second

I am going to try to make it to TBIII. I hope you will bring this marker with you.

You really shouldnt do that.

I am trying to lead to the FACT that NO ONE has a chrono that will read FPS on EVERY ball in one second at MORE then ONE BPS, say like ten or more and I would bet large that you would see a drop off of some FPS and or a wide range of consistency.

They tell you their gun is consistent but does anybody prove it at a high BPS?????

Thats working with a safe board that wont ramp velocity. Or is that what is needed to hold velocity at high ROF???

[p8ntbal4me]

Theres a video on YouTube for the new Dye Rotor that uses a high speed camera to catch the shots and timing to show the BPS.

I would think that with a setup like that,..PLUS the strobe camera TK used to measure the maximum barrel length you need as well as the ROF of the Classic R/T,... you would have a machine that would solve ALL BPS, FPS, and scale your Chrono-per-shot questions from now until whenever someone decides to make the arguement anew.

~ P8nt

[MANN]

I am trying to lead to the FACT that NO ONE has a chrono that will read FPS on EVERY ball in one second at MORE then ONE BPS, say like ten or more and I would bet large that you would see a drop off of some FPS and or a wide range of consistency.

I would have to do the math to be correct, but here is a situation I would think would prove/disprove drop off. (and not cost thousands like special equipment would)

I noticed when testing different paintball barrels that they drop (on the y axis) a given distance over 80'. I will have to double check, but IIRC it was ~10". This was using Great paint, and a Great barrel, and shooting ~ 280fps, and usually being +-3 over 2 chronos

Lets assume that we take the marker and put it on full auto, and get this "large" drop off. Would the balls drop on average (on the yaxis)? would the accuracy of the marker change?

I know I used an Xmag to do all my testing, and I learned very early on that the E/Xmags have alot of kick. I had to mount my xmag with a drop on the back, and a vice on the front. The two were mounted to a ~30 lb wood table, and had 3 scubas straped on the table (to insure nothing got bumped).


I would dare say that in a persons hands that their accuracy would drop with this "kick". Now say you used a marker other than a mag (I know odd right). This kick may not be as obvious.

TK did test on recharge rates (yeah you know that already) so maybe in one of his file cabinets he has it stashed on what the pressure drop is/was on some of the common markers of that time.

IMO recharge rate/drop off should only affect the yaxis as far as accuracy is concerned.

Edit: Second thought
We would not even have to do that. Put the marker in FA 10-15bps. Use a semi expensive chrono (1-200). Unload a hopper, and get the ~10-20 readings. That may give you a snap shot of the velocity every 10th shot. I would be ok in saying that that is a representation of the dropoff.

(this is assuming that the chrono could catch a single ball in a string. I would think that maybe the chrono would catch 2 balls, and throw off the calculation)

[Beemer]

This was using Great paint, and a Great barrel, and shooting ~ 280fps, and usually being +-3 over 2 chronos

Lets assume that we take the marker and put it on full auto, and get this "large" drop off. Would the balls drop on average (on the yaxis)? would the accuracy of the marker change?

IMO recharge rate/drop off should only affect the yaxis as far as accuracy is concerned.

Edit: Second thought
We would not even have to do that. Put the marker in FA 10-15bps. Use a semi expensive chrono (1-200). Unload a hopper, and get the ~10-20 readings. That may give you a snap shot of the velocity every 10th shot. I would be ok in saying that that is a representation of the dropoff.

(this is assuming that the chrono could catch a single ball in a string. I would think that maybe the chrono would catch 2 balls, and throw off the calculation)

Well now you are thinking arent you? We dont care about accuracy right now. All we care about is consistency, which OF course WILL affect accuracy. Every tenth shot, WHAT?
I want FPS on every ball in that second and at MORE then one BPS.

The whole point IS NO one can tell you what the FPS is on EVERY ball at more then one BPS.
But they will TELL you our gun IS SO consistent. I say popycock till they prove it. AT WHAT ROF

Plus or minus three is huge. Starting at 290 FPS, thats a high of 293 low of 287. Thats a six FPS spread. See what I mean?

On a side note start with a given barrel bore a given ball caliber and weight to elimnate some varibles. Nylon balls at set weight and size with a given bore............

[MANN]

Plus or minus three is huge. Starting at 290 FPS, thats a high of 293 low of 287. Thats a six FPS spread. See what I mean?

I would dare to say that it does not affect accuray untill you get +-12ish. I dont have data to back it up, but with the reg being the cause of the change in velocity (and not deformed/bad paintballs) that you could easly shoot 10" @ 100' (again good paint and good barrel)

The reason I state this is because you can play with an rt valved mag. Depending on how fast you pull your second shot, and how long you hold your trigger you can intentionally increase and decrease your velocity +- 12 (dont tell the reffs that). I played around with it one day, and was sorta amazed.

Looks like I am going to have to buy a chrono again. My little yellow one is worthless when shooting 100s of balls over it.

[Beemer]

I would dare to say that it does not affect accuray untill you get +-12ish. I dont have data to back it up, but with the reg being the cause of the change in velocity (and not deformed/bad paintballs) that you could easly shoot 10" @ 100' (again good paint and good barrel)

The reason I state this is because you can play with an rt valved mag. Depending on how fast you pull your second shot, and how long you hold your trigger you can intentionally increase and decrease your velocity +- 12 (dont tell the reffs that). I played around with it one day, and was sorta amazed.

Looks like I am going to have to buy a chrono again. My little yellow one is worthless when shooting 100s of balls over it.

Ya I know all that. I NEVER EVER intentionally try to shoot hot EVER at chrono. I chrono my mags accordingly. Now take an X or E mag or ANY other gun at FA at ten BPS and tell me the FPS on every ball. Fact is no one will or can tell you.

I would say you wont shoot 10" at 100' at plus or minus 12ish FPS. Then again if you want to do it right you need the given bore and the given ball. My little friends the nylon ball at a given size and weight and the hardware to read FPS on every ball at FA at 10BPS

[Spider-TW]

There's a guideline for ball to ball consistency though.

Is not a good "rope" of paint at least a good observation of consistency at high rof?

At a long, but practical, range you see the lower velocity shots starting to drop out earlier than the rest. That's what I would judge my classic pneumag on at least. I'm sure it was more than 15 fps deviation on occasion, but when it to started roping cleanly I had to call it good enough.

The same is true for an x-valve in RT mode. If it's going 15 to 19 bps and I have to move the point of impact because they are all going to the same point, it's good for me.

It demands good paint as a test, but I quit trying to make any performance judgments on poor paint.

[Watcher]

I didn't read the thread up until now but I just wanted to comment.

The velocity readings from AGD on my RT are 293.1, 294.3, 291.2.
That is a spread of 3.1 fps.

I'd consider that pretty damn consistant on a fresh, not broken in regulator.

Anywhere +/- 5 is good in my book and wont make much a difference.

More than that is a little crazy, but within reason. Like, my Tippmann shoots between +/- 8 to +/- 15 depending on conditions. So it can be a bit quirkey at times.

Not the most consistant gun, but still a great gun to play with. It is still accurate enough for me to get headshots at 100 feet.

Consistancy is important but it isn't something that should definine the accuracy.

Most of the time the barrel to paint match is more important. Also the velocity is only going to affect the shot at long range, plus or minus 15 fps at 75 feet won't make much of a difference.

[Beemer]

All of those chrono readings you guys are posting, are from single shots. Im interested in what the shots are doing during a fast string. We can shoot 10-15 bps, in a 1 sec string of say 10 shots, what is every single ball doing?

We dont really know do we?

WHAT is every single ball doing? We dont REALLY know.

I want to know what the FPS is on all the balls in one second at high ROF. I know there is at least one other member that posted that is curious and would like to know. Do the rest of you say who cares, it doesnt matter or it is insignificant, come back when I can ask better questions?

I will still bet large that the later balls in the string will have SOME drop off.

[latches109]

luxe

[Spider-TW]

WHAT is every single ball doing? We dont REALLY know.

I want to know what the FPS is on all the balls in one second at high ROF. I know there is at least one other member that posted that is curious and would like to know. Do the rest of you say who cares, it doesnt matter or it is insignificant, come back when I can ask better questions?

I will still bet large that the later balls in the string will have SOME drop off.

Before we build a system that can measure each and every ball, you have to look at what and where you are trying to measure.

Knowing the velocity of every ball won't necessarily indicate accuracy. A very short, over-bored barrel should give good velocity consistency but stinky accuracy.

Also, distance from the muzzle is a big factor in paintball accuracy and down range velocity. Spheres don't make the best projectile, but lumpy or wet balls are much worse. A "clean" ball will fly farther than a "dirty" ball. The point is that flight deviations caused by the barrel and ball can equal or exceed the deviations caused by muzzle velocity changes in a given distance.

I would also think that even with exact data on each ball, in the end you will be bringing the results back to statistics, if only to prove the point.

So... yes, how about some "better questions"?

[MANN]

luxs suxs

hey it rhymes

As soon as it gets a little warmer I am going to test my theory in distance on the yaxis. If I can rip 15bps fa @ 80' and get 8" target then I feel safe to say there is no drop off.