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Thread: Cheater!

  1. #121
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    CEE, today Poland
    Posts
    18
    Thx - I want one from the next run then pls.

    I will check the rates and will return with PM to you.

    regards

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    84
    Please put me down on the list for the next order whenever it may come.

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    149
    I'm interested in a Cheater but it looks like the next run is filling up fast so I'll wait for the one after. Great looking stuff though!

    BTW Zap I must say kudos to you with keeping everyone here informed with what's going on. You've kept everyone up to date with your progress without giving everyone any BS, and with the way some custom projects have gone around here it's a refreshing change!

  4. #124
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    852
    would putting a qev on the cheater improve performance?

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by Storminnorman
    would putting a qev on the cheater improve performance?
    Not possible or necessary. The piston port goes directly to the valve chamber inside the body. The reason you want a QEV is to reduce the amount of distance the air needs to move. With a typical set up the air needs to back track thru tiny hoses, fittings, and whatnot and that makes speed killing back pressure. A QEV adds a point where the air can escape before going back thru all the plumbing. All the ports inside a Cheater are large and free flowing with minimum back pressure. Think of the exhaust side of my valve system like a built in QEV.




    <--- WORLDS FASTEST MARKER!

    Watch me OUTSHOOT a Victory Board HALO

    No Patent Infringements needed


  6. #126
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    959
    I was lucky enough to get one of these units from Zap in what I believe was a small pre-run before he started this thread. I have
    had it running on my marker for 2 days now and I must say I am very impressed. First of all, Zap is a great guy to deal with, as you can all
    tell from the frequent posts and updates in this thread. Zap sent me a PM or an e-mail at least once a week to let me know where he was in
    the process of getting up and running in preparation for the pre-order. After a short delay for a few design changes, I had my "Cheater" and
    a beautiful set of clear acrylic panels for my 'Telli. After I got it installed, I had a problem that actually turned out to be my sear, but Zap was
    right there with helpful advice when I asked. So you all know that Zap is a great guy, and he builds quality stuff, and his customer service/tech
    support is great too, but what you all want to know is "how does it shoot?". First let me say, I am not an "electro guy". I play mech. I usually
    play rec ball or woods ball with my buddies, although I played in tourneys back in the late 90's. This is the first pneumatic 'Mag that I have
    owned. My "trigger walking" skills are pretty poor, to say the least. However, I was able to get a nice, consistent string going. I would estimate
    that the Cheater increased my ROF by about 65% over my regular 2-finger trigger style. The trigger-pull is short and crisp, although I would
    second Zap's recommendation that you install trigger-stops. I think adding them to mine would probably make me even faster by taking some
    of the extra travel out of the trigger. I have shot through two 68/3000 tanks in 2 days just messing around with this thing and getting a feel for
    it in the back yard. I am really getting to enjoy it. All I can tell you besides that is get one if you can, you won't be disappointed...

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    882
    now that you have us all hot and bothered about the cheaeter
    make us a video friend

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    959
    Quote Originally Posted by kwood
    now that you have us all hot and bothered about the cheaeter
    make us a video friend

    I'd be affraid of scaring you guys off with my poor trigger skills - and maybe a little embarrassed, too. Check this out if you haven't already:

    https://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245528

    Pretty good representaion of what we are getting...

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    709
    I did not get much done Friday because Grammy crashed her Kia. She was not injured. The high point was pissing off the jerkish tow truck driver. A little creativity with a hammer, prybar, and some bailing wire sent him home with an empty pocket

    We wound up staying at her place last night. I got 3 orders boxed up yesterday but did not think to take them with me. No orders shipped. I'm on Dad Patrol for tonight and work will resume tomorrow afternoon. Final tuning is taking a little longer than expected. The last few orders will probably go out mid week.

    I need to amend the operating pressure spec. The 1/2" piston is quite strong. I'm calibrating them at 10 PSI. Things start getting sluggish down around 5-7 PSI. 10 PSI is a good responsive setting and should work well for most. My test rig allows me to rest weight directly on the sear and it supports 2 pounds at 10 PSI. 40 PSI is way beyond overkill and hammering your gun pretty hard. Maximum recommended operating pressure is 20 PSI. That should be enough power to fire even the stiffest classic valve. It will function at higher pressures but the trigger gets harder as the pressure goes up. You will blow the hose off before you damage anything inside so no need to worry about killing your Cheater. I'm working on putting together a downloadable user manual with more detailed information as well as rebuild and tuning tips.

    Gotta go! Time to go fly our styrofoam plane. I'll stop in Monday at the latest and let you know how many shipped.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    984
    10 psi! is there anything out there that will reliably put out only 10 psi? ill probably need a little more with an rt on/off but still. i know the tickler suck bawz at low low pressure. I still want something small. what about the micro rocks? can they fit in a frame? Id like to make it sleeper, thats my project now.

  11. #131
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Oakville, On, Canada
    Posts
    1,013
    That is actually a great question regarding the output pressure of a tickler...Anyone as an idea?

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    709
    I tested these with a Palmers Micro Rock and they work great. It is a bit wider than most frames but will fit inside with a little milling in the grips. I like the Palmer because it is designed well with a big piston. I think those Dye bullet style LPR's have a big piston too but they are kind of long.

    Most LPR's should work OK unless it has really stiff springs. Stay away from the Mako's. The springs are so soft that it wont even open at more than 750 PSI input. If you have trouble with your LPR at low pressure a trip to the hardware store for a softer piston spring might get it to do the job. I had an old STO type clone LPR at one time and I think it would have done fine at 10 PSI. It just depends on how it is sprung. If you can squash the piston spring in your fingers with medium effort then it will probably work.

    2 thru 7 shipped today. The Grass Valley one will probably be there tomorrow. Here they come guys! Next round of shipping on Wed.

  13. #133
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    www.BigEvilOnline.com
    Posts
    2,580
    Zap;

    Did you ever actually start the new list for those of us that want to be on the next orders?

    I saw 10+ not including myself..... might wanna get that order list to the top so we can rest easy!

    ~ P8nt
    _______________________
    Jai "P8ntbal4me" Menard

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    709
    Too much paperwork to track multiple lists and everyone wanting to pay at different times. The only list I'm going to keep is the one with payments made. I would take more orders but I don't want to get to far ahead (or behind I guess). I'm still figuring out ways to speed things up as I go. Don't worry, I'll make my way around to everyone.

  15. #135
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Expendable Goons, Cheap!
    Posts
    3,311
    Quote Originally Posted by ZapTheMad
    2 thru 7 shipped today. The Grass Valley one will probably be there tomorrow. Here they come guys! Next round of shipping on Wed.
    Yaayyyyy!!!!!!

  16. #136
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    CEE, today Poland
    Posts
    18
    Sent PM. Will buy one form next batch...just let me know pls when to send paypal

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    2,600
    Quote Originally Posted by ZapTheMad
    I tested these with a Palmers Micro Rock and they work great. It is a bit wider than most frames but will fit inside with a little milling in the grips. I like the Palmer because it is designed well with a big piston. I think those Dye bullet style LPR's have a big piston too but they are kind of long.

    Most LPR's should work OK unless it has really stiff springs. Stay away from the Mako's. The springs are so soft that it wont even open at more than 750 PSI input. If you have trouble with your LPR at low pressure a trip to the hardware store for a softer piston spring might get it to do the job. I had an old STO type clone LPR at one time and I think it would have done fine at 10 PSI. It just depends on how it is sprung. If you can squash the piston spring in your fingers with medium effort then it will probably work.

    2 thru 7 shipped today. The Grass Valley one will probably be there tomorrow. Here they come guys! Next round of shipping on Wed.

    HAWT, if I have mine shooting mabey ill tote it around cup and let people shoot my mech "mini"

  18. #138
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    450
    Thanks for the review, corriea! I've been looking forward to hearing a first-hand account on this little gem.

    Quote Originally Posted by correia3
    I was lucky enough to get one of these units from Zap in what I believe was a small pre-run before he started this thread. I have
    had it running on my marker for 2 days now and I must say I am very impressed. First of all, Zap is a great guy to deal with, as you can all
    tell from the frequent posts and updates in this thread. Zap sent me a PM or an e-mail at least once a week to let me know where he was in
    the process of getting up and running in preparation for the pre-order. After a short delay for a few design changes, I had my "Cheater" and
    a beautiful set of clear acrylic panels for my 'Telli. After I got it installed, I had a problem that actually turned out to be my sear, but Zap was
    right there with helpful advice when I asked. So you all know that Zap is a great guy, and he builds quality stuff, and his customer service/tech
    support is great too, but what you all want to know is "how does it shoot?". First let me say, I am not an "electro guy". I play mech. I usually
    play rec ball or woods ball with my buddies, although I played in tourneys back in the late 90's. This is the first pneumatic 'Mag that I have
    owned. My "trigger walking" skills are pretty poor, to say the least. However, I was able to get a nice, consistent string going. I would estimate
    that the Cheater increased my ROF by about 65% over my regular 2-finger trigger style. The trigger-pull is short and crisp, although I would
    second Zap's recommendation that you install trigger-stops. I think adding them to mine would probably make me even faster by taking some
    of the extra travel out of the trigger. I have shot through two 68/3000 tanks in 2 days just messing around with this thing and getting a feel for
    it in the back yard. I am really getting to enjoy it. All I can tell you besides that is get one if you can, you won't be disappointed...

  19. #139
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    959
    ^^^^^^^
    NP. What I forgot to mention was how easily it installs. I had it in my frame and ready to rock in about 10 minutes. Probably less. Top-notch piece from Zap. No question about it.

  20. #140
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    2,600
    Im going to aussme the thin part of the rod goes into the cheat block?

  21. #141
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Christiansburg Va
    Posts
    460
    PMing

  22. #142
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    118
    I might be interested in placing an order when the next run or so comes along. Looks like a neat lil product. Seems to simplify the pneu-mag trend so it doesnt seem so large of an undertaking. At least thats how it feels to me.

  23. #143
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    709
    Only got 4 out this time. 8 thru 11 shipped today.

    Shooting for the rest on Fri.

  24. #144
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Oakville, On, Canada
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by ZapTheMad
    Only got 4 out this time. 8 thru 11 shipped today.

    Shooting for the rest on Fri.
    Best news of the day!

  25. #145
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    Posts
    1,102
    Got mine in today!!

    https://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245964

    Thanks Zap.

  26. #146
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Maine, New York
    Posts
    1,227
    Quote Originally Posted by ezcreation
    Best news of the day!

    Agreed!

  27. #147
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    2paws, michigan
    Posts
    134
    I have used but operational Jt 3.5(?) grip frame which should work for this.
    $18 shipped OBO
    http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/x...guy1/003-2.jpg
    http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/x...vyguy1/002.jpg
    http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/x...vyguy1/004.jpg
    http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/x...guy1/005-2.jpg


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by greensplash
    any way to rig a board to these to limit them to 10bps?



    Yes.

    https://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245528

  28. #148
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Londonderry, NH
    Posts
    1,387

  29. #149
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Expendable Goons, Cheap!
    Posts
    3,311
    Just got mine in today. Looks nice and smooth.

    Unfortunately apparently the Chimera frame is narrower inside than the intelliframe. I can't drop mine in

    Zap, is there enough meat on these that I can file off some of the sides, or do I need to do all the modifications on my frame?

  30. #150
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    356

    List

    I am very interested in doing this to my Stormwalk. Put me down on whatever list I need to be on. I am PMing you now

    Swamp

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