Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 33

Thread: emag xmod 1.8 question

  1. #1

    emag xmod 1.8 question

    ok so my xmag is being funny
    it has lvl ten installed no shims
    emag onoff i think,
    oh yeah and a red spring.(i have tried with the gold, same issues.
    how long is an emag onoff pin?


    runs xmod 1.8
    FIX is 0
    Dwell is 15,
    ROF is 10
    its on SEMI
    no ace, ace is off

    the issue is,
    it fires but not every time it reads the magnet.
    you can hear the click everytime.
    its almost as if it fires in a rythem. NOT as fast as i am pulling the trigger

    yes battery is charged and is hold a great charge

    OH and when it fires no issues, no leaks and such, no bolt stick either. when the valve fires it cycle perfect.
    the bolt spacer is the right one the loosest without leaking.

    any and all help would be great.
    WORKING ON A VIDEO


    thankyou,
    KNM.
    Last edited by knownothingmags; 10-25-2014 at 08:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
    Posts
    8,039
    Does it fire every time in mechanical mode? If it fires in mechanical mode, but not in electronic mode, it would indicate a problem with the electronic part. If it has issues in mechanical mode as well, then your problem is valve related.

    The emag pin length is 0.712".

    Is your air line allowing a good air flow? A restriction in the air line or within the valve could restrict the air flow and cause a mechanically predetermined time to charge before the valve can fire again. Is the sear actually fully resetting?

    Another issue might be that your solenoid might not be generating enough force to fully pull in the plunger. Have you checked your solenoid plunger length to be 3.005"? Have you checked that your plunger rod hasn't gotten bent?
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    Does it fire every time in mechanical mode? If it fires in mechanical mode, but not in electronic mode, it would indicate a problem with the electronic part. If it has issues in mechanical mode as well, then your problem is valve related.

    The emag pin length is 0.712".

    Is your air line allowing a good air flow? A restriction in the air line or within the valve could restrict the air flow and cause a mechanically predetermined time to charge before the valve can fire again. Is the sear actually fully resetting?

    Another issue might be that your solenoid might not be generating enough force to fully pull in the plunger. Have you checked your solenoid plunger length to be 3.005"? Have you checked that your plunger rod hasn't gotten bent?
    Yes mechanical mode is flawless.

    I'll check the plunger and its length. Thank you.

    How do I measure plunger length

  4. #4
    Had wrong on off pin in. Replaced with right one. It helped but didn't make it perfect.

    Now just need to figure out how to measure the plunger length
    ***edit. If I'm measuring right, and I am probably not, the plunger measures 2.35"
    Last edited by knownothingmags; 10-25-2014 at 09:46 PM.

  5. #5
    So can the magnet in the trigger be flipped around? Is one pole better for the HES?

    If I take the lowers off it works fine.
    Last edited by knownothingmags; 10-25-2014 at 10:36 PM.

  6. #6
    Cyco-Dude Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by knownothingmags View Post
    ROF is 10...its almost as if it fires in a rythem. NOT as fast as i am pulling the trigger
    i think this is the problem. you are pulling the trigger faster than 10 bps, and the board does not store the trigger pulls. set the rof to 15 and see what it does.

    *edit*
    ah, didn't see the video.
    Last edited by Cyco-Dude; 10-26-2014 at 05:09 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    441
    by looking at the video I would say you're not pulling the trigger @ > 10 bps in electro. But maybe try setting the bps cap higher than 10bps regardless as Cyco-Dude stated before.
    Have you checked the solenoid's integrity/cleanliness? Sometimes sanding down the plunger just a little bit (more like "cleaning" it with a really fine sandpaper) goes a long way.

    IMHO however, I'd start with measuring/checking if all is at standard spec (plunger length, pin, sear length)

    As to the polarity of the magnet which activates the HES: As far as I can recall from rebuilding an E-Mag frame a year ago (I hate myself in retrospect for not documenting that rebuild which really was from the ground up) flipping the pole of the magnet which activates the HES will literally do nothing - i.e. it won't activate the HES (I could be wrong though, since this was a while ago...)

    Measuremt how-to: There's a thread about all specs in which BlackVCG stated the following regarding measurement
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackVCG View Post
    The measurement should be taken from the top of the arm on the sear that the clevis attaches to down to the tip of the plunger. Measuring from these spots you should get 3.005" for the total length.
    This is the thread: https://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?67604

    Hope that helps!
    Nice marker btw
    Last edited by flampaint; 10-26-2014 at 03:20 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    441
    this thread and (once again) BlackVCG's advice might also be of help:
    https://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?264383

  9. #9
    Cyco-Dude Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by knownothingmags View Post
    Had wrong on off pin in. Replaced with right one. It helped but didn't make it perfect.
    are you using a quad o-ring in the on/off top?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,305
    Check your solenoid plunger like AThomas said. Make sure the orings in the on/off assembly are good and lubed and that the pin moves nice and easily. Old orings make the solenoid work too hard.

    Increasing your dwell to 20, then 25, then 30 might bandaid the problem by increasing the 'on' time for the solenoid. This is provided the battery is good, which is a whole other story.

    Speaking of which, throw another on there to see if it fixes the issue.

    I know you should have another

  11. #11
    Thanks for the replies. I'll work on it today.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
    Posts
    8,039
    Quote Originally Posted by knownothingmags View Post
    So can the magnet in the trigger be flipped around? Is one pole better for the HES?
    Only one polarity will function. If it works now, don't change it.


    The plunger length is measured from the pointed tip of the plunger to the farthest outer tip of the clevis.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
    Posts
    8,039
    Looking at the video, it really does look like your solenoid takes more than one hit to pull it in. That would be a low power situation caused by either a battery that is not putting out enough current, or a solenoid that isn't generating enough pull. Setting your solenoid plunger to the correct 3.005" length will give it the maximum pull force for all situations.

    You might want to check your battery connections as well. This includes all wires and connections from the battery all the way to the board. This includes the ground connection where the board fastens into the grip frame. Since you had the gun annodized, one of the ground connections could now be a high resistance point.

    Check your battery to see if it is good.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    Looking at the video, it really does look like your solenoid takes more than one hit to pull it in. That would be a low power situation caused by either a battery that is not putting out enough current, or a solenoid that isn't generating enough pull. Setting your solenoid plunger to the correct 3.005" length will give it the maximum pull force for all situations.

    You might want to check your battery connections as well. This includes all wires and connections from the battery all the way to the board. This includes the ground connection where the board fastens into the grip frame. Since you had the gun annodized, one of the ground connections could now be a high resistance point.

    Check your battery to see if it is good.
    i think the battery is the issue.
    what is the safe range of voltage the battery should be at after sitting,
    say, i charge it, take it off charger, come home at lunch, check the voltage, what should the battery be at for voltage?

    oh and yeah the plunger was a hair short. fixed that.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    441
    Quote Originally Posted by knownothingmags View Post
    i think the battery is the issue.
    what is the safe range of voltage the battery should be at after sitting,
    say, i charge it, take it off charger, come home at lunch, check the voltage, what should the battery be at for voltage?
    There's a thread here with your same/similar problem (https://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?270147 )where you'll find the following statement about voltage:

    Quote Originally Posted by NU_METAL View Post
    That,s correct ,its hard to measure batt voltage under load without an oscilloscope or an analogue meter. If you own a digital multimeter ,its not impossible for this task ,and it does try to capture the cylcing of up and down voltage during full auto , aired up .

    I just went through this with my X-mag ( my particular problem ended up resulting in 2 failed battery's , under a load ! That's rite both of them !
    I just kept telling myself " They are not that old " 1st one is 5yrs old , 2nd one is (?how ever many?) years old and gets hot when charging ,and never gets off the red ,full charge status . That one i suspected had a bad cell , set it aside ,called it bad for now . The 5 yr old KC battery held a charge 19.2 volts sitting around
    This is what i did to test them under load , meaning aired up, in E-mode only .Set meter to DC volts
    Put the red lead on one of the white solenoid wire soldered points on the board , Black on the board ground screw above the display ,hold down on the trigger on full auto ,
    watch the numbers cycle . It happens very fast so watch for the lowest number during cycle ,trigger held,and highest number ,this was the data i got



    5 yr old KC batt- 17.19v - resting Voltage / 11.57v trigger held down in full auto- garbage
    old batt gets hot - 16.7v - resting Voltage / 8.26v trigger held down in full auto - garbage
    brand new AGD batt- 20.01v - resting Voltage / 12.32v trigger held down in full auto -bingo ,never dropped below 12.32volt

    this was the hard lessen that i learned. If batt voltage drops below 12.00volts , the solenoid is not going to be strong enough to pull plunger all the way down ! Until i checked these older batt's under load , i was convinced that a batt that holds a charge idle,sitting around if fine . Not true ,i would check battery if you own a multi-meter , to eliminate this and then move on if its not that .
    solenoids do get weak after so many years ,but before you condemn one ,make sure battery is not to blame . that's what happened to me. Thought it was solenoid ,wound up just being a failing battery
    hope that helps...

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,305
    Amps are the big thing with the batteries and that is tough to measure easily.

  17. #17
    so the board turns on. displays the xmod 1.8 message.
    and after using the best battery I have.
    it is not engaging the solenoid anymore.

    and I adjusted the magnet in half turn increments from all the way turned down into the trigger to almost all the way out of the trigger.

    so, that's kinda funny.

    I have yet to check the grounds at the board and the ground pin up by the battery.
    and the wires I need to check to make sure everything is still attached where it should be.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    441
    if you check the grounds, wiring, etc. and everything seems to be OK, here is another spot to look for a potential problem:
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackVCG View Post
    The plungers would naturally bend a bit through the cycling process. The best way to check for a binding plunger is to remove the valve from the gun, point the barrel end of the gun straight forward (so gravity is working to pull the plunger down) push down on the back end of the sear (part that contacts the on/off valve) and then let go and the sear should fall down and the back end of the sear should be all the way up. If it doesn't the plunger is binding in the solenoid and bending the clevis rod a bit will get it back in alignment and the solenoid won't have to work as hard to pull it down. Solenoids do go bad, but very rarely. I think I replaced maybe one or two in my time teching E-Mags...

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by flampaint View Post
    if you check the grounds, wiring, etc. and everything seems to be OK, here is another spot to look for a potential problem:
    ill add that to the list.
    makes me sad that the marker went to bed great and now its being difficult.

  20. #20
    Cyco-Dude Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by knownothingmags View Post
    ill add that to the list.
    makes me sad that the marker went to bed great and now its being difficult.
    what, did you forget to whisper sweet nothings into your 'mag before you went to sleep?

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
    Posts
    8,039
    Quote Originally Posted by knownothingmags View Post
    ....makes me sad that the marker went to bed great and now its being difficult.
    Sounds more like its acting like a wife than an Emag.

    Make sure the HES plug is fully engaged. The tiny wires can also become an issue if you remove the HES and plug it in quite a few times. Perhaps one of the wires broke. You can simulate the HES by shorting the middle wire to ground. You can also test the HES function by measuring the voltage at that middle pin. It is 5Vdc when the HES is not within the magnetic field and goes to 0Vdc when you pull the trigger and the magnetic field is sensed by the HES.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    Sounds more like its acting like a wife than an Emag.

    Make sure the HES plug is fully engaged. The tiny wires can also become an issue if you remove the HES and plug it in quite a few times. Perhaps one of the wires broke. You can simulate the HES by shorting the middle wire to ground. You can also test the HES function by measuring the voltage at that middle pin. It is 5Vdc when the HES is not within the magnetic field and goes to 0Vdc when you pull the trigger and the magnetic field is sensed by the HES.
    true true. :P
    ill try that too. tonight got busy.

    the reason this is a hurry up and get perfect fix is because someone here is interested in a purchase.
    after a recent buy of the #3/13 xmag i just sold i will not let another mag leave my hands without it working perfect.
    add to the list of checks****

  23. #23
    aha,


    here it is shooting properly now, just double shooting.
    im guessing its because im using a gold spring, I prolly should switch to a red?

  24. #24
    Cyco-Dude Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by knownothingmags View Post
    aha,


    here it is shooting properly now, just double shooting.
    im guessing its because im using a gold spring, I prolly should switch to a red?
    the spring shouldn't have any thing to do with it. is the solenoid tripping twice? like, can you pull the valve out and hear it double-click? does it do this in mechanical or hybrid mode? is the board still on semi-auto?

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyco-Dude View Post
    the spring shouldn't have any thing to do with it. is the solenoid tripping twice? like, can you pull the valve out and hear it double-click? does it do this in mechanical or hybrid mode? is the board still on semi-auto?
    its on semi,
    and it doesn't do it twice with the valve out.
    Last edited by knownothingmags; 10-29-2014 at 08:51 PM.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,305
    What is your fix at?
    Is the trigger rod hitting the back of the trigger? I always back them out a bit shorter than spec because with Xmod it bounces.

    Also, adjust the trigger pull to be a bit longer. After watching the clip on a monitor its hard to tell but the trigger looks real short. Also - how is the magnet above the trigger shimmed? Dont shim it any more than one oring.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Halifax, N.S., Canada
    Posts
    8,039
    If it is doing it with the valve installed but not with the valve out, it may be one of three things. (1) Trigger bounce. (2) HES retriggering (3) A leaking on-off area.

    - Make sure the trigger rod isn't hitting the back of the trigger.
    - Make sure the trigger is stable enough that it isn't bouncing due to the valve firing. You may need to make the upper trigger magnet stronger.
    - The collapse of the solenoid field may retrigger the HES if the trigger is in the right place. You might mitigate this by changing the polarity of the solenoid. You can check the polarity of the solenoid by placing a compase at the base of the grip frame. As you pull the trigger and the solenoid engages, the north tip of the compass will point away from the grip frame. See pic:Name:  solenoid orientation.jpg
Views: 119
Size:  97.0 KB
    - make sure the on-off orings are good and that the pin is working properly.

    The on-off is probably not your issue and can be verified if it is working ok in mechanical mode.

    Increase your fix value above 35 to eliminate the HES retriggering issue if that is causing an issue and the solenoid is wired properly.

  28. #28
    awesome I think with these two new posts, ill get it fixed I have a feeling I know whats going on now.

  29. #29
    AHA FIXED
    boils down to a bent plunger rod, who would have though such a small bend would be such an issue,
    couple that whith a low battery I was using, and the fix on Xmod was too low so it was bouncing, and I shortened the mechanical sear rod some.

    yippy. I knew I could hammer this out with your guys' help.

    that's what I get for only buying and never playing with my markers.
    you don't use it you lose it.

  30. #30
    Cyco-Dude Guest
    nice. now all that's left is to take it to the field for a proper test.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •