One Legged T-Rex (OLTR)

[gotzskillz]

I just figured you would have posted on here. I saw the last thread earlier today but it was talking about your front grip lpr's so I was confused.

[luke]

I posted the other thread to get peoples attention. If you had read the first post in the thread there would have been no confusion.

[luke]

I completed and tested my first Cougar M86 build, it works great. No way to run the hidden reg on a retro fit though. Should be plenty of room if the frame had a build in mounting tab though.

[Chrome]

Luke, I took a look at the render drawing of this frame after seeing how you created the mounting tab for the OLTR.

Could you maybe make the mounting tab "adapter" an L-shaped part to hang off one or both of the top two open holes in the mounting plate, secured by a single screw in the top most completely closed hole? It would put the mounting tab adapter no further down the frame than roughly the barb fitting on the OLTR (I think?) and get that bottom most chunk of metal on the adapter out of the way to get the sleeper LPR enough room to fit? (Would maybe even shave a few grams off the weight of the adapter? )

[luke]

I'm sure there are other ways to do it, it's all about cost and what people are willing to pay, this is the cheapest solution and easiest to machine.

To put it bluntly, retro fitting sucks. I would rater just machine a new frame designed with a proper fit.

[Stedspitcher]

Looks great, can't wait to shoot it with the warp!

[BLachance75]

I got my gun back today and couldn't resist airing it up with my almost empty tank. I only had about 700psi left but I still put it on and let it rip. All I can say is that I love it. I filled my tanks on my way to work so tomorrow morning before work I should be able to really shoot it and take a video.

[Chrome]

To put it bluntly, retro fitting sucks. I would rater just machine a new frame designed with a proper fit.

Agreed, but doing the best that can be done with existing frames just means more OLTRs out in the wild. Particularly, as you have said yourself, existing inventory(ies) must be sold through before "a new frame designed with a proper fit" can (will) be made. In the case of frames other than yours (which can/might eventually get the proper redesign), the retrofit might be the only solution ever. If that is the case, a little extra time up front could pay off with more volume in units sold over the long haul.

I guess it comes down to how many OLTRs you're looking to sell individually versus using the OLTR as more of a special value-add to your own stuff. No right or wrong answer; just choices, like most things in life.

Of course, with the KAM M86 runs being as small as they are (and fairly frequent as of late), making a "rev.2" with a mounting tab machined in might be a not so painful endeavor from a design-production-sales perspective once the OLTR is finalized.

[luke]

Barkingspyder your in mail box is full.

To answer your question, the trigger pin is a non machined part. It's a standard 1/8" dowel pin, 3/4" long. It just slides into the front of the OLTR no problem tuning it to your preference.

[Ailia]

Okay luke... just damn. Just got mine aired up, blew my expectations away.

[luke]

Thanks guys!

I'm curious to hear any feedback comparisons between the T-Rex and the MPA3/MSV2 builds if anyone has used both. I didn't have a bench mark to compare to when I designed this, so I really have no clue where it stands in that reguard.

[luke]

Agreed, but doing the best that can be done with existing frames just means more OLTRs out in the wild. Particularly, as you have said yourself, existing inventory(ies) must be sold through before "a new frame designed with a proper fit" can (will) be made. In the case of frames other than yours (which can/might eventually get the proper redesign), the retrofit might be the only solution ever. If that is the case, a little extra time up front could pay off with more volume in units sold over the long haul.

I guess it comes down to how many OLTRs you're looking to sell individually versus using the OLTR as more of a special value-add to your own stuff. No right or wrong answer; just choices, like most things in life.

Of course, with the KAM M86 runs being as small as they are (and fairly frequent as of late), making a "rev.2" with a mounting tab machined in might be a not so painful endeavor from a design-production-sales perspective once the OLTR is finalized.

>>> OK, so right now I'm not specifically charging for the mounting tab, but if I could presale 25 OLTR's and 25 installs in the M86 and customers were willing to pay for a more complex mount (more difficult to machine) that made allowances for the hidden reg do you suppose I could fill an order? <<<

[barkingspider]

I air'd up my m90 w/mpa3 & msv2 to com pair the trigger pulls with your new OLTR you sent back to me. Love both like a father loves his children, each for different reasons. The OLTR seems crisper and clean with trigger pull. The magnet pull really makes it snappy. The mpa3/msv2 I was able to actuate in quicker cycles, although I have that one dialed in pretty well with the combination of trigger stops and rod length. Both have a distinct sound unique to its own. Love playing around with it thus far, hoping to fine tune trigger pull travel.

Thanks Luke, worth every penny!

[luke]

The T-Rex's performance is directly related to the AGD valve you're running. Of the markers I tested everyones setup was different. Oddly enough I tested a classic valve that tested as one of the better setups. On some of the markers that felt a little lagging I installed one of my ReTro valves and the performance increased significantly.

So a good test would be using the same valve to compare the two setups.

Also, in addition to your trigger stop adjustments, you can play with the LPR input pressure, lowering it will speed up the trigger...

[BLachance75]

Here is my opinion thus far, I'll add more to it after I shoot it more and play around with tuning.

First I'll start with a few pictures and a little explanation of them.

Originally I had sent in an Emag ASA manifold and a LPR but after a few PMs I bought a LPR-FG. I didn't know it but I had the prototype Mini Vert Frame, which Luke had originally milled with the P1 that you can see in the front of the trigger guard.



Luke pointed out that I had the protype frame and asked if I minded getting the prototype OLTR. He explained that it was exactly the same except it was marked differently, with the same P1



When I bought the LRP-FG I asked if he still had the prototype figuring I might as well have a fully matched prototype set if possible. Luke said he did, it also has the P1 marking.



Air channel milling in rail





The trigger pull is very short and snappy, I'll say it is electro short but slightly heavier. I haven't adjusted the LPR at all to try to lighten the trigger pull so it is possible I can make it lighter if I decide to. Luke did tell me that he wasn't going to performance tune people's markers, which I agree with. Everybody likes something different and I think half the fun is tuning it to get it just how you like it.

I think I will end up getting a different trigger as I find it hard to walk the trigger that is on there but that is a personal thing. I can't really walk a trigger anyways so it may just be me. I'm going to shoot it more tomorrow and if I have time start to tune it a little.

[Ailia]

Just tried it with my X valve, getting straight full auto. Definitely interesting. As lancecst says though, the trigger shape really is quite hard to walk, seems to handle much differently than my Tunablade even though they seem quite similar.

Edit: This thing seems to really amplify the traits of whatever valve its paired with, almost a completely different marker with an overactive RT X, vs an ult X, vs an old classic on-off vs a newer classic. The old style classic on-off seems to work oddly well. The overly active RT just goes full auto unfortunately.

[luke]

Just tried it with my X valve, getting straight full auto.

Increase the input pressure from your LPR and the full auto will diminish.

[luke]

I think I will end up getting a different trigger as I find it hard to walk the trigger that is on there but that is a personal thing. I can't really walk a trigger anyways so it may just be me. I'm going to shoot it more tomorrow and if I have time start to tune it a little.

Yes, the trigger makes a BIG difference for me, the Anker trigger is my favorite because it does not crowd the trigger guard.

[luke]

Just finished my first Intelli build a few minutes ago.

[BLachance75]

2 questions;

I'm guessing that turning the LPR-RG adjuster out will lower the pressure, is that correct?

Is the only way to lighten the magnet to adjust the trigger stop? I'm pretty sure I already asked you that but I forgot.

[luke]

2 questions;

I'm guessing that turning the LPR-RG adjuster out will lower the pressure, is that correct?

Yes, out to lower the pressure

Is the only way to lighten the magnet to adjust the trigger stop? I'm pretty sure I already asked you that but I forgot

There are 2 magnets, remove one or both, they don't add a significant additional pressure though.
Decreasing the input pressure will help some.

There is a on/off valve assembly return spring inside the T-Rex. I chose this spring based on the complaints I read about the original cheater.

[jame4091]

So Cool, Can't wait to try it out.
Luke sure does know the meaning of turn around time. (1 week- super fast)
Now if I could just get my anno guy to do the same.

[BLachance75]

Here is a video I made this morning, I have no idea why it is in this orientation, does anybody know if there is a way to turn it through Youtube? I'll rotate it at some point over the weekend and reupload it if I can't do it through Youtube.

In the video I'm using a tank with a Ninja reg that is outputting about 800psi. I don't know what the LPR is set at.



A few notes;
- I'm primarily a pump player and couldn't walk a trigger to save my life. I think the trigger shape isn't helping me either.
- I did adjust both trigger set screws to take up most of the pre/post travel.
- I have the LPR set about as low as it can go to make the OLTR function, this seems to give the lightest pull.
- If I put on my SHP tank which outputs about 1000psi I can get it to RT like mad with the LPR set at this setting. I think it is actually easier to control the RT with the OLTR than with a standard setup.
- At this point I prefer to use it with the 800psi tank. So far I've shot a 68/4500 at 800psi and a 88/4500 at 1000psi, most of this was dry firing.
- At 800psi with a .750 on/off pin I'm not getting a lot of RT effect but it makes the trigger the easiest to walk.
- Personally I'd prefer to have a slightly longer trigger rod, maybe 1/8th or 3/16th, and will probably buy a rod and make my own. I only say this because I like to use the safety. With the current trigger rod you have to either not take out the pre travel so the trigger can go all the way forward or not be able to use a safety. For people who don't use a safety you shouldn't have any issues.

[luke]

For walking the trigger especially with little room in the trigger guard for your fingers, concentrate on hitting the trigger guard with the back of your fingers rather than feeling the trigger on the pads of your fingers. I found that helps with short stroking, plus you can practice finger tapping anywhere anytime.

I dont feel so bad about how slow my fingers are now. lol.

[BLachance75]

For walking the trigger especially with little room in the trigger guard for your fingers, concentrate on hitting the trigger guard with the back of your fingers rather than feeling the trigger on the pads of your fingers. I found that helps with short stroking, plus you can practice finger tapping anywhere anytime.

I dont feel so bad about how slow my fingers are now. lol.

I'm going to blame my valve for how slow I am, yeah it is the valve's fault I can't move my fingers.

I do have a Classic valve with level 10 that I'm going to test out. It should be obvious that I can't shoot more than 10ish bps anyways.

[barkingspider]

Here is a video I made this morning, I have no idea why it is in this orientation, does anybody know if there is a way to turn it through Youtube? I'll rotate it at some point over the weekend and reupload it if I can't do it through Youtube.

In the video I'm using a tank with a Ninja reg that is outputting about 800psi. I don't know what the LPR is set at.



A few notes;
- I'm primarily a pump player and couldn't walk a trigger to save my life. I think the trigger shape isn't helping me either.
- I did adjust both trigger set screws to take up most of the pre/post travel.
- I have the LPR set about as low as it can go to make the OLTR function, this seems to give the lightest pull.
- If I put on my SHP tank which outputs about 1000psi I can get it to RT like mad with the LPR set at this setting. I think it is actually easier to control the RT with the OLTR than with a standard setup.
- At this point I prefer to use it with the 800psi tank. So far I've shot a 68/4500 at 800psi and a 88/4500 at 1000psi, most of this was dry firing.
- At 800psi with a .750 on/off pin I'm not getting a lot of RT effect but it makes the trigger the easiest to walk.
- Personally I'd prefer to have a slightly longer trigger rod, maybe 1/8th or 3/16th, and will probably buy a rod and make my own. I only say this because I like to use the safety. With the current trigger rod you have to either not take out the pre travel so the trigger can go all the way forward or not be able to use a safety. For people who don't use a safety you shouldn't have any issues.

Funny, I feel the same thing about the trigger, trigger rod and the use of a the safety. I just ordered the Anker Trigger, since that design is more of my style with my fat fingers. Minor adjustment to a great product IMO.

[cougar20th]

I completed and tested my first Cougar M86 build, it works great. No way to run the hidden reg on a retro fit though. Should be plenty of room if the frame had a build in mounting tab though.

If the mount would bolt to the top two threaded 6-32 holes,
then trim the lower mount hold off the mount plate as I described in my sale thread a LPR would fit into the frame..
I designed it to work with the ideal Fabco mounting first but also a secondary mounting position that allows LPR fitment after modifying the frame.

So whos frame?

[Dark Side]

What frame do you have? Why wont a MPA3 fit?

FBM Fierce frame. Needs an area milled off to mount the piston properly.

[luke]

If the mount would bolt to the top two threaded 6-32 holes,
then trim the lower mount hold off the mount plate as I described in my sale thread a LPR would fit into the frame..
I designed it to work with the ideal Fabco mounting first but also a secondary mounting position that allows LPR fitment after modifying the frame.

So whos frame?

The current mounting tab is basically free, a fancy tab that requires more complex machining would not be free. It remains to be seen if anyone would be willing to pay the price of the OLTR, a "fancy mount" plus frame machining to make it all work.

I'm certainly not saying it can't be done, I'm only saying that I doubt there would be support at the additional costs.

[BLachance75]

For those of you that are using Classic valves, are you using a regular on/off or a RT on/off.