New too Automags need help with bolt getting stuck???? Lvl 10

[the_real_kaz]

Hello, and thanks for any help in advance!

I'm new to automags. I just bought a brand new ULE from AGD last week it also has the ULT installed. I took it to the field and shot a case of paint through it no problem. It developed a leak in the power tube at the end of the day. I'm thinking it was the power tube because it leaked when the trigger wasn't held (I've been searching this forum all night). I also read that this can happen when the o-ring gets broken in, and you need to go down a size so I went down a size carrier using the same o-ring until I was at the smallest.... it still leaked. After hours of messing with it I ended up switching the power tube o-ring out and using the .5 carrier I got it to stop leaking with a new o-ring. I'm guessing a marked up the first one to much when I took it apart the first time.

After all of that I thought I had the breaking in problems fixed.. It doesn't leak but now when I shoot it fast at all, the bolt gets stuck. Basically the trigger goes dead after a couple of pulls. If I put my finger in the feedneck I can push the bolt back a little bit (like only a fraction of an inch) and then the gun will fire again until I fire fast and the bolt will get stuck again...

Any help would awesome. I've been on the forum and youtube for several hours tonight.

[Laku]

Sounds like your carrier is too tight. So I'd go up one size and test it from there. Also if you have any shims remove them. You shouldn't ever need them.

[kfletch]

You also may have over tightened the thumb screw holding your valve in. It should always only be finger tight. No need to crank it down with an allen key.

[the_real_kaz]

Thanks for the info guys!!!! I Really appreciate it. Never would have thought of the thumb screw being a problem. I'll try both and see what happens.

[Cyco-Dude]

or...the thumb screw could be too loose. sometimes you do need to tighten it a bit with an allen wrench. i would first try the carrier first...you want the largest carrier that doesn't leak, so friction is at a minimum. if the carrier you are using now is the largest that doesn't leak, the next time your bolt sticks, try tightening the thumbscrew with an allen. if it's an alignment problem, the thumbscrew adjustment will fix it right away. if it doesn't help, then your problem is elsewhere.

[going_home]

Might try the next size larger spring....

[athomas]

Your original setup was probably fine and just needed an adjustment.


Level 10 tuning guide:

When tuning your level 10, remove all the shims from the powertube before starting. They don't affect the operation but they can cause false leaks which cause you to use a carrier size that is too tight. Don't put them back when you are done. You shouldn't ever need them.

For carrier sizing:

Find the carrier size that causes the installed oring to fit freely over the bolt stem. The carrier should sit on the bolt stem without moving if the bolt is held in a vertical position. If you tap the valve on a hard surface, the carrier should be loose enough to allow the bolt to move. If you have to force the carrier onto the bolt stem with any force at all, then it is too tight. Install the bolt and valve into the gun. When aired up there should be no leaking. If it leaks, take the carrier out and replace it with the next smaller size. Always use the same white carrier oring in each carrier that you use. It is the orings that you are adjusting. Try it again. You want to use the largest carrier size that does not produce a leak.

Any time that the gun fires and does not reset or short strokes and does not reset, or just chuffs and does not reset, the problem is most likely a carrier that is too tight. Installing shims will not help. Shims only help if the bolt moves, hits an object but does not vent any air, and then cannot reset because the chamber is still fully charged. Most of the time the bolt always moves far enough to expose the vent hole, get rid of excess air, and then reset.

For spring adjustment:

You want to use the bolt spring that allows you to shoot about 20fps above the lowest velocity that the gun will cycle at. So, if you want to use the gun at 280fps, then your desired lower limit of operation is 260fps. Insert your long bolt spring. Turn the velocity adjuster down before you air up the valve. Then gradually turn up the velocity until the gun will cycle. This is your lower velocity. Measure it. If it is above 265fps, then you will need a shorter spring or you will need to clip the one you have (unless you have red one. They are usually in the correct range). If you clip a spring, only clip half a coil at a time and then try it using the same procedure of starting with a low velocity setting. Make sure you put the cut end of the spring towards the bolt. If you have the short spring installed, and the lower range is 30fps below the desired shooting velocity, I wouldn't worry about using a stiffer spring and would just go with the short bolt spring. If it was much lower than that, I would definately clip a long spring to get closer to the desired range.

[the_real_kaz]

Wow great information! Thanks so much!

The carrier was to small so I adjusted that and it worked much better. I also had the back screw to tight.

The gun came with a gold spring in it (shortest one). I also have a red and a silver spring. If I run into more trouble it may switch it to the red spring. I need to get more air to do more testing as I've ran out in my tank from all the leaks it had before.

[Tunaman]

You also may have over tightened the thumb screw holding your valve in. It should always only be finger tight. No need to crank it down with an allen key.

AGD says use a wrench. That is how they leave the factory now.

[b-cuzz]

You may already know, or have already done so, but before you fire it up for the day, put 2-3 drops of oil into the ASA. These critters like the oil. Especially the R/T's.

[athomas]

The gun came with a gold spring in it (shortest one). I also have a red and a silver spring. If I run into more trouble it may switch it to the red spring.

The gold spring will work on all instances. If it doesn't work with the gold spring, then switching to the stiffer springs won't help. Most of the time the gold spring gives you all the antichop that you need unless you have really brittle paint.

[the_real_kaz]

The bolt is still not resetting after being fired quickly and I am noticing it is short stroking as well. Keep in mind if I shoot slowly it operates fine, but when I shoot several times in a row I have trouble.

I've messed around with the carrier o-ring a ton. I have no leaks at all and I am at the biggest carrier that doesn't leak. (Still at the .5 carrier).

I'm starting to think it is something with the On/off or the trigger adjustment its self. I'm watching the trigger and I noticed the trigger pin doesn't come back all the way out when I fire quickly. I can also hear a clicking inside the body at about where the On/off is when I push back on the bolt after it hasn't reset correctly. I'm starting to think the ULT isn't pushing all the way back on the sear... Any ideas?? Do I need to adjust the trigger pin?

[athomas]

I'm starting to think it is something with the On/off or the trigger adjustment its self. I'm watching the trigger and I noticed the trigger pin doesn't come back all the way out when I fire quickly. I can also hear a clicking inside the body at about where the On/off is when I push back on the bolt after it hasn't reset correctly. I'm starting to think the ULT isn't pushing all the way back on the sear... Any ideas?? Do I need to adjust the trigger pin?

The trigger shouldn't be causing an issue unless the trigger pin is hard against the back of the trigger when you hold it against the safety while the gun is aired up. For clarification, there should be a gap of about a credit card thickness.

The trigger pin doesn't come forward because the sear is being blocked by the bolt. When you push the bolt back, it frees the sear up and allows it to reset. The clicking you here is the sear hitting against the body, just in front of the on-off. This is a normal bolt stick situation. In normal operating conditions, the bolt would fully reset on its own and the on-off would push the sear forward without being impeded.

Since you have the largest carrier that doesn't produce a leak, I am also going to assume you don't have any powertube shims installed. If this is the case, perhaps you have too many shims installed in the ULT. Try removing one or two shims. An ideal starting number of ULT shims is 3. If you have too many, the timing might be off causing a tiny on-off leak while resetting which could cause the bolt to stick. Usually, you can get away with as many as 6 shims, but that varies by gun so don't assume yours will be fine with a high number of ULT shims just because others have indicated that their guns work fine with that many. Make sure it is ULT shims and not level 10 shims that are installed. The ULT shims are 0.005" thick, while the level 10 shims are 0.010" thick. You can use level 10 shims in your ULT, but one level 10 shim replaces two ULT shims.

Once you verify that you have the largest carrier, no powertube shims, and the proper number of ULT shims, and are still getting bolt stick, then you might have a bad powertube oring which is causing you to use a carrier size that is too tight for your oring. If this is the case, replace the oring and adjust your level 10 carrier size to fit it properly.

[athomas]

What is the output pressure of your air tank? You need a higher pressure to operate a level 10 mag. You should be using a tank that outputs more than 800psi. Less than that and you might run into issues where the orings don't seat properly. They might once the orings break in, but when new a higher pressure will seat the sealing surfaces better. You'll notice this same problem when your tank is getting low. You will suddenly experience bolt stick situations that were never there before, especially during rapid fire situations. Once you fill the tank back up, everything will work fine again.

[kfletch]

AGD says use a wrench. That is how they leave the factory now.

Huh I was always told on here it would cause bolt stick. Gonna have to check the psi my fingers are putting out lol

[Cyco-Dude]

The bolt is still not resetting after being fired quickly and I am noticing it is short stroking as well. Keep in mind if I shoot slowly it operates fine, but when I shoot several times in a row I have trouble.

I'm new to automags. I just bought a brand new ULE from AGD last week it also has the ULT installed.

i'm chalking this up to operator error...you need practice pulling the trigger. it's easier to short-stroke using the ult during rapid fire; you have to pull and release all the way or you'll have issues. you might want to try a regular rt on/off as well to see if that suits you better.

[the_real_kaz]

Once you verify that you have the largest carrier, no powertube shims, and the proper number of ULT shims, and are still getting bolt stick, then you might have a bad powertube oring which is causing you to use a carrier size that is too tight for your oring. If this is the case, replace the oring and adjust your level 10 carrier size to fit it properly.

Okay I will try the powertube Oring, thanks for the info on the carrier shims vs ULT shims. Never would have known the difference. I have all the powertube shims out. I haven't messed with the ULT yet, but I will remove one shim from it and see if that helps out.

i'm chalking this up to operator error...you need practice pulling the trigger. it's easier to short-stroke using the ult during rapid fire; you have to pull and release all the way or you'll have issues. you might want to try a regular rt on/off as well to see if that suits you better.

I was able to shoot an entire case of paint with no problems before I got a carrier O-ring leak. Then I scratched the orginal O-ring and then had to tight of a carrier. I'm 100% sure since the leak its been user error. I've been pulling the trigger the same the entire time and I have short stroked the trigger from time to time but i know I'm getting bolt stick the majority of the time.

Thanks so much to everyone. The support on this forum is AMAZING! I will try a couple things when I get home from work.

[the_real_kaz]

I GOT IT FIXED!! Thank you to everyone who replied to this thread! I used to post a lot on PBF so I know what it's like helping noobs, so thank you all so much! The reputation this forum has as being a great place is well deserved.

I changed the powertube Oring and removed 1 shim from the ULT and it was back to normal. I was able to shoot 2000 PSI with only one short stroke (Which I'm sure was me pulling the trigger at the wrong time as Cyco suggested.) I really wish I would have done them one at a time so I could have found out which it really was, but now that its shooting great I'm not going to mess with it.

Special Thank you to athomas for the advice. If you make it down to Wisconsin (More like side ways from Nova Scotia but anyway) let me know, I owe you a bag of paint!!

[athomas]

With mags, it is usually something simple. Its good to hear you got it going.

[ScottyBeans]

Special Thank you to athomas for the advice. If you make it down to Wisconsin (More like side ways from Nova Scotia but anyway) let me know, I owe you a bag of paint!!

athomas is the man; I remember when he helped me out with my first level X gun a long long time ago. Would definitely buy that dude a beer if I ever met him.

Congrats on getting the mag working. I'm sure it will be awesome for you!

[Cyco-Dude]

awesome, use the hell out of it! they only get better as they break in...until they leak, i guess. lol.