A Different Way to Play Limited / Unlimited Paint Tournaments

[athomas]

You can also wipe in paintball, run a cheatmode on a board, crank up your velocity, and even with limited paint you can hide paint. There is a certain amount of honor expected in paintball, as in any sport. Sure, people can cheat, but you hope they wont.
There would be no way around one 10 round tube at a time without blatantly cheating. A ref would see a loading tool, a bigger opening, a funnel vs a hole, and someone loading more then a tube at a time.
The tournament sponsors would be providing the paint in 10 round tubes since no one would have time to load a bunch of tubes between rounds. Some type of modified tube wouldn't even be of an advantage.
Tournaments are filmed so it would be even more obvious there. The other good thing with that format is you don't have to worry about less obvious methods of cheating like cheater boards. People could run uncapped full auto or run a response trigger and it wouldn't be of any benefit.

My statements have nothing to do with cheating. I hate cheaters. I am just saying that it is quite possible to make devices that are perfectly legal, that will make 10 round tube loading really fast. And trust me, as soon as you impose that type of restriction on the game, these devices will surface on a developed retail level. The promoters don't want to limit your use of paint in the game, anyway. They make money selling paint. Paying to buy loaded 10 round tubes because its an inconvenience? That isn't going to slow anyone down either. I can load 100 rounds at a time into tubes in a few seconds.

The whole idea of this thread is to hash out ideas for limiting, or not, the amount of paint being shot in a tournament game to even things up or to add another level to the game. The last thing anyone wants to have to do is watch for equipment infractions. That just takes us back to when we had cheater boards and uncapped debounce. You want to make it as easy as possible to police, and you want to make it so that anyone can play with the game legal equipment that they already own.

I like GoatBoy's suggestion. I think that would be hilarious to watch.

[boo]

My statements have nothing to do with cheating. I hate cheaters. I am just saying that it is quite possible to make devices that are perfectly legal, that will make 10 round tube loading really fast. And trust me, as soon as you impose that type of restriction on the game, these devices will surface on a developed retail level.

It's also perfectly legal under current tournament rules to field a team of half human half machine cyborgs, and I could cite the Americans with disabilities act if anyone were to outlaw it. Has it happened? Will it happen? Come on...

You have to load a tournament provided 10 round tube by hand into a hopper with a hole no bigger then 1 and a quarter times the diameter of a paintball. That hopper must have a balls in hole and a balls out hole, and not have any more holes, openings, slits, etc. No more then 1 10 round tube can be attached to the gun at any given time. Multiple 10 round tubes can be loaded through that hole 1 at a time.

The balls must go directly from the lip of the 10 round tube into the hopper, there cannot be an intermediary device like a loader. The 10 round tubes must be loaded by hand into the hopper. A speed loader cannot be used. A speed loader is any device that mechanically loads 10 round tubes into the hopper.

Ok, enough about the balls deep in holes.

Start of the match everyone starts out with 0 balls loaded in their paintball marker. That means no paintballs can be attached to the marker in any way. A ref can walk down the starting line shaking each marker to check. Hoppers can be inspected at any time if the ref suspects the player has any type of hidden compartment.

The matches would be longer but I'd imagine there would be a fair amount of paint still flying. If someone wants to play backfield they should be able to fill a 200 round hopper and keep it going. The difference is that person will have to watch their back and their flanks more as there's a good chance that a player used that time to gain better field position. Having to reload more under fire would also add additional elements of strategy and team collaboration.

The tournament organizers will still make the same amount of money since they are selling both overpriced paint and tubes. Tubes will litter the field so after the tournament is over the organizers can recollect the 10 round tubes and resell them at the next event.

You'll also have teams that will have different models of markers from one manufacturer. What a better way to sell more markers then convince everyone they need different types of markers to play different positions in tournament paintball.

[SeeK]

I say you toss in some random colors of paint fill in every batch that are worth more points. Since you can't see the fill color, it's surprise everyone.

[athomas]

I say you toss in some random colors of paint fill in every batch that are worth more points. Since you can't see the fill color, it's surprise everyone.

In a tournament situation, you don't want random events to dictate the outcome. Victory should only be based on the ability of the winning team.

[Patron God of Pirates]

As somebody who is involved in making games, my first and last advice would be to keep it simple. Simple rules are easy to understand and enforce. In that spirit, if it were up to me, here is how I would go about designing games based on the limited/unlimited principle:

Standardized equipment: (subject to change so long as applied universally)
-200 round hoppers
-4 pod harnesses

X = weight of each teams pod packs going in
Y = weight of each teams pod packs going out
Final Score = (Game Score)x(Y÷X)

Hoppers must be empty going in, or amnestied. The later meaning that it is possible to score 100% by not emptying any hoppers.

Optional rule to curb cheating: instead of a 2 for 1, a player yanked for cheating has his pack count as empty.

[athomas]

As somebody who is involved in making games, my first and last advice would be to keep it simple. Simple rules are easy to understand and enforce. ...

...Optional rule to curb cheating: instead of a 2 for 1, a player yanked for cheating has his pack count as empty.

I like the keep it simple rule as well. You don't want any grey area if you can help it. As soon as you require an interpretation of the rules, someone will missinterpret it.

The player pack counting as empty if yanked for cheating isn't going to be a deterent later in the game when the pack is empty or almost empty anyway. If thats the only deterent, then it will encourage cheating towards the end of the game if it means extra kills without much cost. You need to keep a standard practice for penalties, where it is harsh enough to deter the infraction, not too stiff that refs are willing to overlook it, and it has to be well defined. You can add to the value of the penalty by having the pack count as zero, though.

The multiplier you mention won't work. If a team empties their pods and wins the game with a perfect score, they still get zero, because 0/X = 0. Maybe use something like Final Score = (0.5 x Game Score) x (1+(Y÷X)). Now the theoretical max score is 100% based a full pack and 50% for empty packs.

[zulubravo44]

Incidentally, this also helps fix the slight problem of tournament paintball being absolutely boring to watch.

I was already chuckling before I read this line, but you nailed it!

[Patron God of Pirates]

"I like the keep it simple rule as well. You don't want any grey area if you can help it. As soon as you require an interpretation of the rules, someone will missinterpret it."

"The player pack counting as empty if yanked for cheating isn't going to be a deterent later in the game when the pack is empty or almost empty anyway."

"Maybe use something like Final Score = (0.5 x Game Score) x (1+(Y÷X)). Now the theoretical max score is 100% based a full pack and 50% for empty packs."

I hadn't thought of the late game cheating. I agree and cosign all of the above. It essentially makes efficient paint usage 50% of your score. Easy to understand.

[going_home]

You should be allowed to carry as much paint as you want, and be free to use the latest and greatest equipment that you or your sponsors can afford...








... But for every extra 150 rounds you bring onto the field, you should be required to carry an extra "accessory".

I'm talking gas station bathroom key style.



And accessory hits count!

First 150 rounds fly free.

Second 150 - Cowbell
Third 150 - Hubcap
Fourth 150 - Carafe of coffee, and no coffee may be spilled, although it can be consumed in game

etc.

Incidentally, this also helps fix the slight problem of tournament paintball being absolutely boring to watch.

Ding ding ding,

Might as well close the thread.

The best post has already been said.

[hardr0ck68]

I always thought the best change the sport could make is go back to gravity feed hoppers only... sure take your super blastem wackem dm32 out, and top it with a revy (I hope those eyes are as good as DYE says they are ) haha

another thought I have is a tournament series with a claim system, run classes based on marker cost and limit it no fire modes (300 limit, 600 limit and 1000 limit) then if someone is playing out of their league (custom gun with cheater board and air in the 300 bracket) anyone can offer that player $300 for his gun and if he refuses that team is dropped from the tourny. So now you limit the tech, through claims, used in each bracket. Might not want to take your 1,000 pump assisted free flow cocker out with all custom internals in a $300 pump tourny, because you may have to choose at the end of the day to leave with a trophy or your gun. Someone swears their marker is semi only when it sounds to be ramping, buy it from him and next match he might have to deal with you dropping the hammer on him.

[cockerpunk]

I always thought the best change the sport could make is go back to gravity feed hoppers only... sure take your super blastem wackem dm32 out, and top it with a revy (I hope those eyes are as good as DYE says they are ) haha

another thought I have is a tournament series with a claim system, run classes based on marker cost and limit it no fire modes (300 limit, 600 limit and 1000 limit) then if someone is playing out of their league (custom gun with cheater board and air in the 300 bracket) anyone can offer that player $300 for his gun and if he refuses that team is dropped from the tourny. So now you limit the tech, through claims, used in each bracket. Might not want to take your 1,000 pump assisted free flow cocker out with all custom internals in a $300 pump tourny, because you may have to choose at the end of the day to leave with a trophy or your gun. Someone swears their marker is semi only when it sounds to be ramping, buy it from him and next match he might have to deal with you dropping the hammer on him.

claiming is a great way to keep tech and costs even i agree.

but you ever see someone sponsor a claiming team?

[athomas]

I always thought the best change the sport could make is go back to gravity feed hoppers only... sure take your super blastem wackem dm32 out, and top it with a revy (I hope those eyes are as good as DYE says they are ) haha

another thought I have is a tournament series with a claim system, run classes based on marker cost and limit it no fire modes (300 limit, 600 limit and 1000 limit) then if someone is playing out of their league (custom gun with cheater board and air in the 300 bracket) anyone can offer that player $300 for his gun and if he refuses that team is dropped from the tourny. So now you limit the tech, through claims, used in each bracket. Might not want to take your 1,000 pump assisted free flow cocker out with all custom internals in a $300 pump tourny, because you may have to choose at the end of the day to leave with a trophy or your gun. Someone swears their marker is semi only when it sounds to be ramping, buy it from him and next match he might have to deal with you dropping the hammer on him.

I like the idea of gravity hoppers. Back in the day, everyone wanted force fed due to the arms race, and the fact that most guns didn't have eyes or antichop capabilty. That isn't a problem anymore. Almost any gun can run gravity fed hoppers without fear of chopping. You automatically limit the rate of fire to around 14bps or less, because that is the limit that has been established for a free falling ball stack.

The claim system is a hard one, because sponsored players would have access to cheaper guns and accessories than players that aren't. That automatically creates a divide. Yes, the other players could theoretically buy the tricked out guns, but as soon as they use it in a tournament, someone else could buy it from them and they are back where they started from. The sponsored players would always have the upper hand in the arms race. A rich team could theoretically buy a win using super modified guns in a lower cost class. Plus, if I'm on a limited budget and already have a nice marker that I saved up for, I don't want to risk losing it in a tournament. I also can't afford to buy a second marker, just to fit the category I want to play in.