AGD Two-Piece Barrel

[nak81783]

Does anyone know whom AGD contracted to make the two-piece Autococker threaded barrel that is pictured on the Tac-One on AGD's website? Is it a high quality barrel, or just a stock grade barrel that shipped with ULE-bodied markers?

Is it the same manufacturer and quality as the similar looking one-piece that came with the X-Mags?

[going_home]

I think it's a JT 2 piece.

They are ok, nothing special.

[nak81783]

Sure looks a lot like a JT. Thanks.

So here's the deal. I bought an iFit kit for my Autococker, since it had small inserts to prevent rollouts. My stainless backed Powerlyte Scepter looks funny on the end of the iFit, so I thought I'd use my AGD two-piece I've had lying around since 2004.

Question is, does the barrel attached after the iFit really make a difference? Not trying to start a physics debate, and obviously trial and error will tell if it's acceptable for me, but I'm just wondering if I should invest in a new barrel. If so, which one? I've been using Powerlyte Scepter kits for over the last ten years, but I'd like to keep it all black and under 14".

I'm considering finding an old style one piece All American or a new CP Advantage.

[going_home]

I switched to a Stella Freak Apex2.

[Nobody]

Sure looks a lot like a JT. Thanks.

So here's the deal. I bought an iFit kit for my Autococker, since it had small inserts to prevent rollouts. My stainless backed Powerlyte Scepter looks funny on the end of the iFit, so I thought I'd use my AGD two-piece I've had lying around since 2004.

Question is, does the barrel attached after the iFit really make a difference? Not trying to start a physics debate, and obviously trial and error will tell if it's acceptable for me, but I'm just wondering if I should invest in a new barrel. If so, which one? I've been using Powerlyte Scepter kits for over the last ten years, but I'd like to keep it all black and under 14".

I'm considering finding an old style one piece All American or a new CP Advantage.

Yes it can. Because a cocker's detent is designed to prevent double feeding and not hold the ball in place, you do need to use a choker to keep the ball from rolling out, or a good bore to paint match. A freak fit or other multiple bore barrel system is great for that. Now if you don't have the smaller sized inserts(unfamiliar for the Scepter barrel), then you either need to use a different barrel that can be sized better for the paint or use a choker for the cocker.

Now what you are doing with the iFit is making a 3 step bored barrel. The length of the collar does not do much, as it is just a few inches if that. The paintball acceleration test showed that a paintball reqches velocity in the first 6"-8" of the barrel. There is debate on if you should continue the bore(traditional 1 piece barrel with a single through bore) or to use a stepped barrel(any 2 piece modular barrel where you have a tighter back but a larger front). You can decide on what you want.

But for your needs, which i don't know why you are using an ifit unless the bore doesn't go down to the size of the paint, you could try to find a black anno'd back. So if you are using the ifit, it doesn't break up the look as much.

If you are wanting something newer and possibly better, i do highly suggest the Stella kit. As you can customize if for your needs and build a kit for your liking. They have freak and single fixed bored backs. It is a very nice kit, and super quiet.

[nak81783]

I've basically been chasing after the ever shrinking paint sizes the last few years.

I started in 1999 with a Spyder SE, and shortly thereafter I bought a Classic Automag. Both were fitted with Smart Parts one piece All American barrels. Back then, you bought a barrel to match your paint. Shooting mostly BigBall and PMI Premiums, the All American was a good fit, and it worked well for years, except a few times in the winter. With the Spyder and Automag, it didn't matter; the detents on the open bolts prevented rollouts.

Fast forward to 2003. I started playing more FPO fields as the high school gang dissipated, and I couldn't always use the aforementioned brands. I saw a noticeable difference in precision with all the different paints/sizes the fields would use. I also bought the Autococker, so I started noticing the rollouts. I purchased the first generation Powerlyte Scepter kit, with 6" inserts ranging from .684 to .692. This solved my issue for years.

Fast forward to ~2012. Paint was frequently below the .684 insert. Again, not a huge deal with the Automag (had upgraded to ULE body, using the Powerlyte; Spyder was gone), but very annoying to miss those single shots with the Autococker when no ball was present. I tried looking for (what I'll call) a generation 1.5 Powerlyte Scepter kit. Same as what I had but gloss instead of matte inserts, and the inserts went down to .680. Could not find one. I did find a (what I'll call) a generation 2 Powerlyte Scepter kit used for a good price. Gen 2 had shorter (freak length) inserts .680 - .696. It came smallest at 14" where everything until now I used was 12". Ended up liking it a lot.

Paint continues to shrink. I investigate the freak, but it only goes down to .675. tymcneer offers smaller brass inserts, but by the time I buy the kit or freak bore a barrel, and buy the smaller inserts, I'd have a little more into than I wanted. This is why I went with the iFit. Found a used 6 piece kit for $40. If I need to add the .667 insert for another $20, it's not that big of a deal. I've used the .670 insert one or twice, and the .673 and .676 very often. Paint is small nowadays.

So basically, I need the iFit as a choker/breach sizer, and I want something that performs and looks nice attached after that, all while staying below 14". I will probably continue to overbore with the Scepter kit on my Automags, simply to avoid a three step barrel.

I would spend the money on the entire freak if I thought it would fix the issue, but since I have to use the smaller iFit inserts, I don't see it being a solution. I do realize the simple answer is to not use the Autococker, but there's just something about those cycling pneumatics/back block. And it's my go to when I need more efficiency than the Automags.

[kfletch]

Buy better paint. I shoot Valken-Graffiti / Redemption and never need to switch from my .688 barrel.

[nak81783]

I forgot to mention that. Local fields currently use Valken paint. I've tried Infinity, Fate, Crusade, and Grafitti, all with the same size issues. I think it was Diablo Heat and Formula 13 before that, which also ran small.

kfletch, I just noticed you're in Ohio. Same climate as MI. Surprising that Grafitti, which is towards the higher end of Valken's paint offerings, varies that much from MI to OH. I was using the .676 with Grafitti.

[Nobody]

Climate might be the same, but its how fresh the paint is when it gets to you that is more important.

If you are experiencing sub-.680 paint, then a freak system and Ty McNeer's brass inserts are the only true answer to that. Though i think lurker or someone like that has 1 piece tiny bore barrels. I also Believe that the Stella has sub .680 bores but i am unsure about that.

IMO, the ifit kit is great at wasting your money. The freak isn't great, but it does get the job done.

[nak81783]

Other than it acting as a detent for the Autococker, I agree with you on the iFit, which is why I was so happy to find a great condition used kit for a good price. It's not just the rollouts/blank shots; it's also the partial rollouts that result in low fps fliers.

I checked on Lurker barrels. I think they bottom out at .678. The Stella, I think, went down to .675.

Trust me, I'm tempted to sell all the things I've purchased to chase shrinking paint (except the detent, I mean iFit, kit), and buy one nice one piece .693 barrel and not worry about it. Less worries at the expense of a little efficiency and precision.

[Laku]

I also Believe that the Stella has sub .680 bores but i am unsure about that.

.675 is the smallest I think

[Laku]

This is interesting though. I'm from Finland and we sure as hell don't get the fresh paint, but it still seems to be around .685 on average (I mostly use .689 backs) been using G.I 4 star, Empire Evil and DXS hellfire for the most parts.

[nak81783]

I bore mic'ed all my inserts. My older Scepter kit inserts are way off. The .684 and .686 measure .689, so the problem may not go back as long as I originally thought. However, the newer Scepter kit and iFit kit all measured within .0003-.0005 of the marked size. So the recent use of .670-.676 is legit.

I wonder if those older inserts were always off, or if they gradually wore/expanded over ten years of use, which seems unlikely. I seem to remember paint getting tighter as inserts got smaller though. Anyway, won't be selling that one without full disclosure.

[Nobody]

Freak inserts are notoriously off, so don't feel bad. To a point, when i use inserts i use the listed number as a guide, not necessarily the truth. Remember, when you cut 1 piece, the part should be in spec. When you cut 10,000 . you have so many difference in tool ware, part misalignment, chatter, over polishing, and just total mislabeling.

[nak81783]

I agree with the relative guide statement, and I would add anodize build up variation, gage calibration, and myriad human factors to your list. Thanks for the input. I'm sure I'll figure out this extremely minor first world problem.

[Cyco-Dude]

the valken graffiti / redemption i shoot, and most people it seems, averages out to .684 for a very slight underbore. you must have a weird batch or something man. or the bore your using are not the sizes they say they are.

[nak81783]

100% confident in my measurements (NIST traceable calibrated gages, measured multiple times fwd, mid, and aft along length of insert), but yeah, I'm definitely feeling like the odd man out with my paint. I'll check for lot numbers on the boxes, and see how a different batch (when it becomes available at the local field) sizes out.