Lubrication Options

[Qoph]

My first, and hopefully most simple question is: what is A.G.D. Autolube? It must be rebranded oil. Right? Is it Gold Cup? Also, is it synthetic?

Speaking of synthetic, what exactly does that mean? What is it generally made of, and are silicone oils considered natural or synthetic? Which lubricants are not safe for pneumatic O-ring materials?

Is there any reason to use grease and oil, or is it all the same to use one or the other? I've been using Hoppe's gun oil, but I've heard it isn't good on the O-ring material. So I bought some pneumatic grease. I just want to know if I should also get some different oil, or if the grease will be sufficient.

[SeeK]

Grease if you want the lube to stay, liquid if you want it to flow.

In a Mag you generally put a couple of drops in the ASA and fire a few shots to spread the lube past all the moving parts. Can't do that with grease.

For the trigger you could use grease since you now have it.

The possible downside of grease is that dirt can accumulate on it.

Most oils are petroleum based while synthetic is not (ie. Mobil 1 oil).

[Nobody]

KC troublefree oil is all you need. I forget the new name of it, but that is all you ever need.

There is not much you ever need to grease on a mag. Synethic means its not a petroleum based lube so it will not damage the orings in it. Other oils might cause deterioration or swelling of the orings, which causes leaks or problems.

[JKR]

I use grease on the spring pack and once in a while on the barrel orings but mostly I use oil. KC Trouble Free oil (now known as Outlast) is good stuff...can't go wrong with it. Not terribly long ago, I bought some synthetic oil called Super Lube. It has a pretty good rep in the firearms world and seems to be good stuff too.

[Qoph]

Sesame and olive oil are not synthetic either, though. I'm curious whether silicone oils are considered synthetic. Because silicon is natural, but they probably need to do something to it in a lab to make oil out of it. However, are any of the O-rings in the Automag silicone-based?

There were little globs of grease on the bolt and trigger when I got it. It was green. I thoroughly cleaned it off and applied the Hoppe's all around. The leaking power tube either started or got worse after that. The grease I just got is Pathogen Super Grease. I've read nothing bad about it.

As for the trigger, I think I missed some green goo on that. I never separated the rail from the grip frame. It's never given me a reason to do so. OK, I don't want to make a whole new thread for this one additional question. Can anyone tell me whether the bottle adapter on A.G.D.'s store page has their logo printed on the side not shown? Or are they supplying a generic adapter these days?

[Qoph]

I will look up the Outlast. I read in an older thread about Tribology Tech-Lube air tool & pneumatic oil possibly being a good solution. Obviously this would prove difficult to obtain for consumers. Is that same oil re-branded under another name for retail, and if so has anyone tried it in a marker?

[Qoph]

From C & C Synthetics: “The synthetics that you will most often encounter in machinery applications are “Ester based” synthetics, but there ore other types such as glycol-based and silicones.” That answers one of my questions. After reading all the info on their site, I believe I will get some. I have a problem with paying nearly the same for shipping as the product itself. So I think I want the 8 ounce bottle.

[Nobody]

Take the valve apart & wash ot down with as hot as you can stand water. Use a soft brush to thoroughly clean off any old grease & gunk. Then wash all the other hard parts. Take any orings and wipe them down with a papertowel or a regular towel. No need for any cleaners.

Assemble the gun, put 4-5 drops of oil in the air inlet and air up without the barrel. Shoot it through. This will coat all necessary parts with oil.

I have found air tool oil to be a little thin, but it can certainly be used if you do not have access to anything. As with anything, use of off brand oils and such will not give the greatest results. The outkast oil can be found on most sites but ebay always seems to have it. You will not need a lot, as a 3oz bottle will last years...

[Qoph]

I've tried several different search terms and haven't been able to find it for sale anywhere aside from their official site. Which is fine. I just need to wait for office hours to call and place an order. They only have two size options on their site: 1 ounce and 8 ounce. The latter requires you to call in.

[Cyco-Dude]

I'm curious whether silicone oils are considered synthetic. Because silicon is natural

silicon and silicone are completely different things.

anyways, i think this has been pretty well covered. use an o-ring safe oil for you marker and you'll be fine.

[Qoph]

They aren't completely different. Silicone is made from silicon. Also, that question you quoted was answered in post #7. The question of which product to use is in fact answered. However, the question as to whether there are any silicone soluble O-rings in the marker is not answered.

[Nobody]

They aren't completely different. Silicone is made from silicon. Also, that question you quoted was answered in post #7. The question of which product to use is in fact answered. However, the question as to whether there are any silicone soluble O-rings in the marker is not answered.

There are telfon and urethane orings. I do know that the urethane orings do not like petroleum based lubes, as they will be effected. I am sure that the teflon orings don't like them as well.

[Qoph]

Aye, so 'regular' oil is right out. All right, well thanks for that. I got my replacement parts in the mail today, but I've got to wait for my lubricants before fixing my marker now. I don't want to put the Hoppe's back in.

[Cyco-Dude]

They aren't completely different. Silicone is made from silicon. Also, that question you quoted was answered in post #7. The question of which product to use is in fact answered. However, the question as to whether there are any silicone soluble O-rings in the marker is not answered.

it has silicon in it, among many other compounds. they are chemically and molecularly different though.

silicone soluble o-rings, no there are none. just use any synthetic air-tool / paintgun oil. agd autolube is fine if you have that; agd wouldn't include it with their guns if it was bad for them. i've got some pure energy oil that i like, some aci oil...non-flammable oils and no harsh smells. if you had rc cars, you could even use some silicone shock oil in a pinch (lower viscosities would be better lol).

the issue with hoppes oil, while good from what i've heard, is that it has solvent in it to thin the oil. good for bike chains to help it flow in-between the links, but over time the solvent could deteriorate the o-rings.

[athomas]

There were little globs of grease on the bolt and trigger when I got it. It was green. I thoroughly cleaned it off and applied the Hoppe's all around.

Don't apply grease or oil to the bolt or bolt spring. The grease or oil will transfer to the balls and inside of the barrel which will cause the balls to spin and curl off target. Keep the outside of the bolt dry.

[Qoph]

All right, thanks both of you. For the matter of the balls getting greasy, I get that. However, oil is always going through the entire marker. You just shoot out the excess before starting play.

With the grease, there shouldn't be excess to shoot out. If it does come down the barrel, then it probably happens so slowly as to not matter. I'm just saying how I picture it. Please let me know if there's an error there. I haven't used grease in any of my markers before.

Hoppe's regular oil doesn't contain solvent. They do have products that use solvents, but not their standard No. 9. Which is what I've got. Still, the oil itself can slowly deteriorate plastics, I believe. You don't find those inside a firearm, so it's perfectly fine in that case.

[athomas]

All right, thanks both of you. For the matter of the balls getting greasy, I get that. However, oil is always going through the entire marker. You just shoot out the excess before starting play.

With the grease, there shouldn't be excess to shoot out. If it does come down the barrel, then it probably happens so slowly as to not matter. I'm just saying how I picture it. Please let me know if there's an error there. I haven't used grease in any of my markers before.

Oil isn't always going through the entire marker, only when you first dump a bunch of oil into it. You only want enough oil to wet the orings. More than that will get blown out, which is what you want. You want to make sure no excess oil is left before you put the barrel on, or it will get coated.

There shouldn't be any grease inside a mag valve. The only place grease is applied is on the regulator spring in the velocity adjuster. That grease won't get into the valve, so it isn't an issue.

The biggest oil and grease problem people have with their mags is that they grease or oil the bolt and bolt spring. That grease or oil will get in the breach and barrel area and cause accuracy issues. The bolt spring and bolt should be dry at all times.

[cockerpunk]

its just synthetic air tool oil.

[JKR]

My KC Trouble Free bottle is about empty. Switching over completely to this once it is empty...

http://www.super-lube.com/synthetic-...ty-ezp-56.html

[SeeK]

Their product comparison chart should be useful for anyone still on the fence about synthetic and silicone:
http://www.super-lube.com/files/pdfs...lity_Chart.pdf

[athomas]

I'm not sure lubricants with PTFE are the best choice. PTFE compounds work best in low speed operations where you have metal to metal contact. The PTFE compounds act like tiny ball bearings to carry the load. In a mag valve, there is no metal to metal contact. You are relying on the oring to seal and provide the load carrying surface. All you need is a lubricant for it. Use a good light oil with no PTFE additives. The Super Lube oils are fantastic oils and greases. Use the non-PTFE version of the Super Lube listed in the link above, and you would be good to go.

The PTFE lubricants may work fine, but you are adding compounds that are designed for a completely different function. PTFE compounds work best in grease type applications, or if you want to get grease like lubricating properties in areas that cannot be reached using normal greasing techniques.

[JKR]

I'm not sure lubricants with PTFE are the best choice. PTFE compounds work best in low speed operations where you have metal to metal contact. The PTFE compounds act like tiny ball bearings to carry the load. In a mag valve, there is no metal to metal contact. You are relying on the oring to seal and provide the load carrying surface. All you need is a lubricant for it. Use a good light oil with no PTFE additives. The Super Lube oils are fantastic oils and greases. Use the non-PTFE version of the Super Lube listed in the link above, and you would be good to go.

The PTFE lubricants may work fine, but you are adding compounds that are designed for a completely different function. PTFE compounds work best in grease type applications, or if you want to get grease like lubricating properties in areas that cannot be reached using normal greasing techniques.

You could be right but I have a 4 oz bottle already an I am going to roll with it. My 1911 should love it too and since it won't damage orings, I figure it won't hurt anything. Hey, a drop on the power tube and the bolt should move like butter!

[SpyderBoy]

There were little globs of grease on the bolt and trigger when I got it. It was green.

That was probably Hater Sauce which is a high quality green grease. I use it on the triggers and regulators for my markers. Super slick and very stable.