Anyone Here Drive A Fast Car?!?

[Automag Ranger]

the way i see it, is you build a car to the rulebook. and then you go race. all of my cars are heavily modified (with the exception of the miata), but they are built to, or being built to a rulebook. because then you settle it on the track.

anything else is wealth worship to me, not skills improvement. making a fast car is no secret, nothing terribly complicated about it, you just need money. when im riding the bumper of a 800 hp ZR1 every lap at the track, or raw timing a GT3 in autocross, and im not even a top tier driver locally, i mean, i have a tough time with why in the world those builds matter. i don't really get what the point is.

when it comes to cars, the two Ts are the most important ... talent and tires.


but then my collecting paintball guns for the sake of them has ended too. now im really just more interested in playing paintball, not gun whoring. i guess i'd just rather DO rather than OWN. same thing with cars, i'd rather race them and improve my skills as a driver, than with no restrictions, build a car.

You're only looking at cars in the context of what you do. I don't do what you do, nor do I have any desire to because I get enjoyment doing what I do.

For instance, I could say your car isn't fast because you will never trap close to 140 mph in the quarter. You could say my car isn't built right because I don't pull 1.2g's on a corner. It's apples to oranges.

I love the Atom for more than its ability to go around cones. I don't need advice on what cars I should get as I've been building and racing the kind I like for years. I know I'm sacrificing top end speed and cornering ability by building a 4400 lb car. Could I build another car to make it faster for a lot cheaper? I sure could. But then I lose everything else I love from my current car.

You sound like a dad telling his kid what he can and can't like lol. Thanks, but I'll keep doing my thing.

[cockerpunk]

Im not stopping you or criticzing you. You expressed that you wanted to have fun autocrossing, so i was merely suggesting good/cheap ways to do that. an atom is not the way to do it.

[cockerpunk]

also, you should look into pro-solo, very fun format:



its a drag race start into an autocross course.

[Automag Ranger]

also, you should look into pro-solo, very fun format:

I have done pro-solo several times. It's a lot of fun, but I'd rather spend money to make my car faster in a straight line than a constant supply of tires.

[nak81783]

I'm sorry. I have to ask, even though it's none of my business. What do you guys do for a living? Or, more bluntly, think Joe asking Peter on Family Guy, "How can you afford these things?"

The only thing I can contribute to this thread is that I got approval from the wife to buy a 2015 WRX, but my daddy instincts kicked in. She wanted a third row something for future mommy carpooling ambitions. Bought her a 2015 Highlander. I got her 2011 RAV4...at least it's a V6 AWD Sport with the appearance package (no tire on the back, among other things).

Oh, and I did see XMT's car when a buddy and I went there to buy an E-Mag. So the car exists, and after seeing his machine shop, I'm sure he's got lots of homegrown goodies in it.

[cockerpunk]

I'm sorry. I have to ask, even though it's none of my business. What do you guys do for a living? Or, more bluntly, think Joe asking Peter on Family Guy, "How can you afford these things?"

The only thing I can contribute to this thread is that I got approval from the wife to buy a 2015 WRX, but my daddy instincts kicked in. She wanted a third row something for future mommy carpooling ambitions. Bought her a 2015 Highlander. I got her 2011 RAV4...at least it's a V6 Sport.

im an engineer. no kids <- the real secret
i also basically do all my own work on my cars <- the only affordable way to own porsches or racecars of any type, even then .... eeek. ive spent easily double the purchase price of my 944 just keeping it running/nice

but frankly, most SCCA solo and pro-solo competitors are middle class, married, with kids. most HPDE drivers are too, though that is UNDOUBTEDLY more expensive.

i mean you can get into a nationally competitive E street miata or spyder for, 6 grand, with an annual tire budget of another thousand. a day autocrossing is 30-50 bucks, and at least locally here, you can do it every weekend all summer. thats probably the cheapest way to get into autocross in a serious way. if you don't want/need to be competitive, and just want a fun day out with your car, assuming its street legal and safe, you can just show up and run almost any kind of car.

[Automag Ranger]

I'm sorry. I have to ask, even though it's none of my business. What do you guys do for a living? Or, more bluntly, think Joe asking Peter on Family Guy, "How can you afford these things?"

I'm a traveling vacuum salesman.

[blackdeath1k]

I second the no kids being a big factor.
Engineer here as well. Actually just now gonna start using that degree as I just accepted a new job. But fabrication, design, and custom control systems has been my job for 15 years. But anyways. Married. Wife has a full time job and covers her hobby (nail art) and makes side money with it. I do the motorcycle thing and find ways to make side money wrenching on them. Or changing tires since I own a portable tire changer. My standard is champaign taste with a beer budget.

I do all my own work except motor building. My builder is to cheap to not use. I plthem c weld. Shape. Form. Fiberglass. Paint. Ect. And now have a mill and lathe.

As for tire price. I wish motorcycle roadrackng was that cheap. I avoid it due to tire cost. A friend of mine just got the amateur title in the series he raced this past year. He said each weekend out is basically 12-1500 bux. Between slicks and other expenses.

I had a little Saturn sky roadster and one point. But now if I buy another useless toy car it will be a lotus Elise. 05 era flavor. I just flat love them little overgrown gocarts.

[nak81783]

I'm a traveling vacuum salesman.

Ever forget the vacuum?

[Automag Ranger]

Ever forget the vacuum?

Constantly.

I do bad things on the behalf of good people.

That's my real job.

[cockerpunk]

I second the no kids being a big factor.
Engineer here as well. Actually just now gonna start using that degree as I just accepted a new job. But fabrication, design, and custom control systems has been my job for 15 years. But anyways. Married. Wife has a full time job and covers her hobby (nail art) and makes side money with it. I do the motorcycle thing and find ways to make side money wrenching on them. Or changing tires since I own a portable tire changer. My standard is champaign taste with a beer budget.

I do all my own work except motor building. My builder is to cheap to not use. I plthem c weld. Shape. Form. Fiberglass. Paint. Ect. And now have a mill and lathe.

As for tire price. I wish motorcycle roadrackng was that cheap. I avoid it due to tire cost. A friend of mine just got the amateur title in the series he raced this past year. He said each weekend out is basically 12-1500 bux. Between slicks and other expenses.

I had a little Saturn sky roadster and one point. But now if I buy another useless toy car it will be a lotus Elise. 05 era flavor. I just flat love them little overgrown gocarts.

autocross is the poor mans motor sport.

you step into spec road racing, you are talking 2 grant weekends easy. and thats road racing a dinky 135hp miata. HPDE (track days) are around 500 a weekend easy enough. heck, even go-kart racing is gonna be around there.

the rabbit hole is as deep as you want to make it when it comes to racing.


the biggest problem isnt costs however. its ego. i've seen more 600+ hp v8 cars go through fences, or into walls than anything else. guy thinks "well finally, i have a car for this, so now im gonna start doing track days" and promptly puts his supercharged GTO into a wall at 90mph, and we never see him again. so this scares people off. but the answer to bad driving isnt just staying a bad driver, its learning to be a good driver. folks know they will get smoked by a 116hp miata, so they don't even bother showing up. you have to walk into your first high performance driving school without that ego. and for folks who build 600+ hp cars that are used to the car shows, the stop light races, internet message boards, etc ... thats tough to do. they are used to there car bringing with it a level of respect, but within a circle of drivers, its skill that brings with it respect.

unlike running, or jumping, or catching a ball, driving is not natural. there is basically no such thing as natural talent behind the wheel. its basically based only on experience and instruction. to a lesser extent intelligence matters too. so no one is good at it naturally. which means we all started at zero at some point. and even national level drivers, there are higher levels, and even at the highest levels of sports car racing, everyone is learning from everyone else, trying to be best they can be.

there is always someone better, that shouldn't be scary.



not to toot my own horn to much, but i regularly smoke every lotus locally. arguably a better car than my spyder, but no local drivers are good enough in them to catch me. we don't have a particularly strong set of local lotus drivers though. the driver matters far more than the car, TT, talent and tires.

[nak81783]

I bought a '95 Wrangler around 2009. Thought I'd like off-roading. But after paying for the vehicle, tires, insurance, registration, ORV tags, maintenance, etc., etc., etc., I was scared to take it off road and break something. Ended up just using it for light two-tracking and deer hunting. Hit some black ice going 15mph under the speed limit and rolled it twice heading up to the UP. That was the end of that. Definitely didn't plan on doing much with the WRX (doing two cartwheels in a car is humbling), but it was the only safe, AWD, manual transmission , relatively affordable vehicle with some power to it. I do miss a manual transmission. I wish there was an SUV meeting the aforementioned criteria.

[blackdeath1k]

autocross is the poor mans motor sport.

you step into spec road racing, you are talking 2 grant weekends easy. and thats road racing a dinky 135hp miata. HPDE (track days) are around 500 a weekend easy enough. heck, even go-kart racing is gonna be around there.

the rabbit hole is as deep as you want to make it when it comes to racing.


the biggest problem isnt costs however. its ego. i've seen more 600+ hp v8 cars go through fences, or into walls than anything else. guy thinks "well finally, i have a car for this, so now im gonna start doing track days" and promptly puts his supercharged GTO into a wall at 90mph, and we never see him again. so this scares people off. but the answer to bad driving isnt just staying a bad driver, its learning to be a good driver. folks know they will get smoked by a 116hp miata, so they don't even bother showing up. you have to walk into your first high performance driving school without that ego. and for folks who build 600+ hp cars that are used to the car shows, the stop light races, internet message boards, etc ... thats tough to do. they are used to there car bringing with it a level of respect, but within a circle of drivers, its skill that brings with it respect.

unlike running, or jumping, or catching a ball, driving is not natural. there is basically no such thing as natural talent behind the wheel. its basically based only on experience and instruction. to a lesser extent intelligence matters too. so no one is good at it naturally. which means we all started at zero at some point. and even national level drivers, there are higher levels, and even at the highest levels of sports car racing, everyone is learning from everyone else, trying to be best they can be.

there is always someone better, that shouldn't be scary.



not to toot my own horn to much, but i regularly smoke every lotus locally. arguably a better car than my spyder, but no local drivers are good enough in them to catch me. we don't have a particularly strong set of local lotus drivers though. the driver matters far more than the car, TT, talent and tires.

The lotus would just be a Sunday driver. Lol. I just love them cars. Always have.

As for the power / experience level. I agree totally. I own 3 sportbikes with various power levels. Notice my corner Carver is older with the least HP. It's also the most forgiving and most fun in corners. Dragging knee on my Busa. Or run of the mill 1000s takes very clean and precise throttle control. Or you puke the bike out at lean by lighting the tire up. My 600 however is very forgiving to a person that understands throttle control. So I can go out and really play. And in turn. Like you with the cheaper and less HP car. Wax the others with your control and knowledge of your vehicle.

[cockerpunk]

The lotus would just be a Sunday driver. Lol. I just love them cars. Always have.

As for the power / experience level. I agree totally. I own 3 sportbikes with various power levels. Notice my corner Carver is older with the least HP. It's also the most forgiving and most fun in corners. Dragging knee on my Busa. Or run of the mill 1000s takes very clean and precise throttle control. Or you puke the bike out at lean by lighting the tire up. My 600 however is very forgiving to a person that understands throttle control. So I can go out and really play. And in turn. Like you with the cheaper and less HP car. Wax the others with your control and knowledge of your vehicle.

oh dont worry, i plan to join them. spyder is undergoing a full SSM class build right now, in a year or two she'll be sporting 350rwhp, 1950lbs .... my main competition this year in class was a 430rwhp mk2 mr2 turbo codriven by an SS class national trophy winner, and his friend, who is a local STR class winner. im tired of bringing a knife to a Vulcan cannon fight, even if i can win sometimes.

my point is you gotta learn somewhere. lots of folks don't bother showing up because they don't think they have a "good" car for it, and so when they finally have what they think is a good car (which often isn't), it has far too much power, and not enough grip, and they have not learned on less powerful, and less grippy cars, how to drive, so they promptly put it in a wall and are done with motorsports.

like the kid who buys a brand new ego, talks **** on messageboards all day, and then gets smoked the second he shows up to actually play paintball.

one of our clubs most promising drivers learned to autocross in a 5 speed Camry. ****ty car, but he learned how to carry speed through corners better than most because of its flaws. a girl in our club used to run a hyundai sedan, before she bought a mk1 mr2. it doesn't matter what car you have, you can always learn to be a better driver. and that, unlike upgrading your car, always stays with you.

[cockerpunk]

I bought a '95 Wrangler around 2009. Thought I'd like off-roading. But after paying for the vehicle, tires, insurance, registration, ORV tags, maintenance, etc., etc., etc., I was scared to take it off road and break something. Ended up just using it for light two-tracking and deer hunting. Hit some black ice going 15mph under the speed limit and rolled it twice heading up to the UP. That was the end of that. Definitely didn't plan on doing much with the WRX (doing two cartwheels in a car is humbling), but it was the only safe, AWD, manual transmission , relatively affordable vehicle with some power to it. I do miss a manual transmission. I wish there was an SUV meeting the aforementioned criteria.

i want to buy an old XJ for ice fun. you can find them in manual still.

dat AMC straight 6 ...

[Fred]

One of my college buddies/ex co worker/ex roommate has an Elise.

If you're 5' nothing tall like he is, they're awesome. He dailies it and it will never be worth less than he bought it for unless it gets wrecked.

If you're 6'1 like me, its a nightmare figuring out how to fall into and out of one. The roof off helps, but not much.

Very fun to drive though.

I'm hoping to replace my GTI with a Focus RS next year...

[UncleStasiu]

I'm sorry. I have to ask, even though it's none of my business. What do you guys do for a living? Or, more bluntly, think Joe asking Peter on Family Guy, "How can you afford these things?"

The only thing I can contribute to this thread is that I got approval from the wife to buy a 2015 WRX, but my daddy instincts kicked in. She wanted a third row something for future mommy carpooling ambitions. Bought her a 2015 Highlander. I got her 2011 RAV4...at least it's a V6 AWD Sport with the appearance package (no tire on the back, among other things).

Oh, and I did see XMT's car when a buddy and I went there to buy an E-Mag. So the car exists, and after seeing his machine shop, I'm sure he's got lots of homegrown goodies in it.

I'm sure you're a wonderful person, with very different priorities than me, obviously. I'm not riled up at you, just at the question, since I get it often. So here goes.

By ignoring the "responsible" voice, and listening to the one that says "make life fun". My responsibilities go way beyond keeping my kids safe and making raising them easy. I need to make life fun, to teach lessons like fast can be fun, so can slow and bouncy. Getting stuck is ok, as long as you figure out why. Sliding isn't scary, just a thing to deal with, and can actually be fun if there aren't other cars around. The view out the window is better than the one of the DVD player in grandpa's minivan.

My little boy runs around making blow-off valve noises with his Hot Wheels, yells faster in the Skyline, loves waving at people from the "wrong" side of the car, but has zero interest in driving it ever. He always wants to get behind the wheel of the Jeep and go offroading, climb up the gullies and rocks, and splash through the mudpits.

Not sorry for the minor rant. "How can you afford that?" is usually just a thinly veiled "how can you be so irresponsible? You need a minivan or SUV!" in my experience, and I cannot abide that sentiment. I can afford these things because I've owned the car since before I met my wife, because she bought my Jeep as a (cheap) gift from her friend, because she traded her crappy CUV in for her Jeep and made a profit on the transaction, because I paid less for the sandrail than for my Viking.

How can YOU afford to prioritize convenience, comfort, and blandness over fun, skill, and new experiences? In ANY aspect of life? What lessons does that teach?

[blackdeath1k]

I'm sure you're a wonderful person, with very different priorities than me, obviously. I'm not riled up at you, just at the question, since I get it often. So here goes.

By ignoring the "responsible" voice, and listening to the one that says "make life fun". My responsibilities go way beyond keeping my kids safe and making raising them easy. I need to make life fun, to teach lessons like fast can be fun, so can slow and bouncy. Getting stuck is ok, as long as you figure out why. Sliding isn't scary, just a thing to deal with, and can actually be fun if there aren't other cars around. The view out the window is better than the one of the DVD player in grandpa's minivan.

My little boy runs around making blow-off valve noises with his Hot Wheels, yells faster in the Skyline, loves waving at people from the "wrong" side of the car, but has zero interest in driving it ever. He always wants to get behind the wheel of the Jeep and go offroading, climb up the gullies and rocks, and splash through the mudpits.

Not sorry for the minor rant. "How can you afford that?" is usually just a thinly veiled "how can you be so irresponsible? You need a minivan or SUV!" in my experience, and I cannot abide that sentiment. I can afford these things because I've owned the car since before I met my wife, because she bought my Jeep as a (cheap) gift from her friend, because she traded her crappy CUV in for her Jeep and made a profit on the transaction, because I paid less for the sandrail than for my Viking.

How can YOU afford to prioritize convenience, comfort, and blandness over fun, skill, and new experiences? In ANY aspect of life? What lessons does that teach?

Both side of said coin is relevant. Some people are in a position they can barely afford a single mid priced vehicle. In which case the one that does all needs comes first. I grew up with parents that worked hard to make ends meet so that there kids could hopefully have the things they could not. What they would have liked to do for me and what they could afford to do were not the same. Me and the wife have friends that do stuff all the time. They also have debt up to there eyeballs and get concerned at any change for the risk of not making there loan payments. Us on the other hand. All bikes are paid for. And our house may not be flashy but it works and costs little. So if one of us misses a couple days of work it isn't the end of the world. Flip sides to everything.

[nak81783]

You're right. My question deserved such a response. Sorry for my question and for derailing the thread. I'll butt out.

Edit: Or rather, I deserved such a response for my question.

[UncleStasiu]

Both side of said coin is relevant. Some people are in a position they can barely afford a single mid priced vehicle. In which case the one that does all needs comes first. I grew up with parents that worked hard to make ends meet so that there kids could hopefully have the things they could not. What they would have liked to do for me and what they could afford to do were not the same. Me and the wife have friends that do stuff all the time. They also have debt up to there eyeballs and get concerned at any change for the risk of not making there loan payments. Us on the other hand. All bikes are paid for. And our house may not be flashy but it works and costs little. So if one of us misses a couple days of work it isn't the end of the world. Flip sides to everything.

Very true, I had a similar upbringing. (Poor immigrant parents, I was born 2-3 years after they got here. Turns out the streets arent actually paved with gold, but way better than behind the Iron Curtain still) I didn't touch on that side of the argument as any parent who paintballs and is in the market for a new Highlander or WRX isnt scraping the bottom of the barrel. The question generally comes from this financial strata. Friends that are less well off don't ask how and don't see irresponsibility, they just work harder, and do the best they can. They drive what they can until they can drive what they like. And since they're of like mind, their still have "fun" vehicles. Just that they can only afford one cheap one, so it needs to be reliable enough to be a daily driver, and any (few) mods have to do with ingenuity and barter rather than "ooh shiny!" and a credit card.

[maniacmechanic]

Constantly.

I do bad things on the behalf of good people.

That's my real job.

and I Thank You for that , L & L

[blackdeath1k]

Uncle.
Very true. Wife is a polish immagrant. She was 3 when moving here. And yes all points apply. I hear that question a lot too. My general response is. I've worked hard a lot of years to acquire my toys one toy at a time. Anyone else can do the same.

NAK.
All good. When you have a handful of people talking about there apparent high dollar playtoys it does beg the question. "What do you do for a living.". And when looking. Some apparent expensive toys are actually pretty cheap.


Cockerpunk.
I've really thought about a motor swap for my corner Carver. For other uses I do enjoy all the power of my other bikes. But in reality. The added rotatig weight alone makes for a total change with throwing a bike side to side. So my final decision with that bike is that it stays stock. With minimal overhead in it. The 600 is literally my desposible bike.

Fred.
Sorry I missed your Elise comment earlier. Luckelly for me. I'm 5'10" and 160lb. So the overgrown gocarts are not that bad. My sky was about the same.

[cockerpunk]

I'm sure you're a wonderful person, with very different priorities than me, obviously. I'm not riled up at you, just at the question, since I get it often. So here goes.

By ignoring the "responsible" voice, and listening to the one that says "make life fun". My responsibilities go way beyond keeping my kids safe and making raising them easy. I need to make life fun, to teach lessons like fast can be fun, so can slow and bouncy. Getting stuck is ok, as long as you figure out why. Sliding isn't scary, just a thing to deal with, and can actually be fun if there aren't other cars around. The view out the window is better than the one of the DVD player in grandpa's minivan.

My little boy runs around making blow-off valve noises with his Hot Wheels, yells faster in the Skyline, loves waving at people from the "wrong" side of the car, but has zero interest in driving it ever. He always wants to get behind the wheel of the Jeep and go offroading, climb up the gullies and rocks, and splash through the mudpits.

Not sorry for the minor rant. "How can you afford that?" is usually just a thinly veiled "how can you be so irresponsible? You need a minivan or SUV!" in my experience, and I cannot abide that sentiment. I can afford these things because I've owned the car since before I met my wife, because she bought my Jeep as a (cheap) gift from her friend, because she traded her crappy CUV in for her Jeep and made a profit on the transaction, because I paid less for the sandrail than for my Viking.

How can YOU afford to prioritize convenience, comfort, and blandness over fun, skill, and new experiences? In ANY aspect of life? What lessons does that teach?

wow, well said. im not a father, but your point is excellent.

another point i'd add to this is that in the modern era, we worship "practicality" to an impractical level. everyone, all the time, must have a car that can take 5 people, have at least 4 doors, and carry camping gear, 300+ miles, in comfort, in 16 inches of snow, and if you don't ... why did you bother buying it at all?

when i first got into cars, i bought a GTI (mk6), excellent little car. but after a year of owning it, realized that i had to go out of my way, to use its hatchback form factor. i had to go out of my way, to carry more than one other person, or carry enough stuff to fill more than a small trunk etc etc, and that it was simply silly to pay so much money, for something that i used literally less than 5 times a year. in fact, i don't own a car with a real back seat anymore, have not in 3 years, and never had an issue.

we think we need far more than we need, until we have created such a demand for a device, because we expect 1 car to literally accommodate without hassle, everything we plan to do for the next 2-8 years. thats insane. its perfectly ok to take two trips to home depot to pick up paving stones. saving me that hour or so round trip ... isn't worth buying a bigger car. making it 3 or 4 trips, still doesn't convince me.

im not saying two door sports cars are for everyone, but we all could, scale it back. like a lot.

and, if you want to be clever, we can do far more, with far less, and have more fun because of it. yeah people look at you funny when you are dumping bags of leaves out of your miata at the city dump. yeah, it can be fun to try and figure out how to fit a bookcase in the back of your porsche ... but you can do it.

we simply do not need as much "practicality" as we think we do.



thats a bookcase AND a nightstand in the back of my 944.

[blackdeath1k]

⬆⬆⬆⬆. I love it. That's so what I would do. And actually do haul all sorts of things on the bikes. A 4'x8' piece of closed cell foam rolled up down the interstate may be my best.

As far as practicality.. Practicality is in the indevidule. My wife loves her 4 door little civic. Me. I prefer small 2 seat cars. I drive my s10 though because I have need for the bed. And not theoretical need. It has stuff in it off and on weekly. Could I use a trailer. Probably. But I really hate that even more. So a small truck it is. It will take some major life changes for us to consider anything bigger than her civic though. It will hold 4 normal sized people fine. Gets almost 40mpg consistant. 45 at times. And she enjoys it. Together if we ever have a need for a vehicle bigger than her civic. We can rent one.

Here is my little playtoy. I sold it only to buy a house. Before we got married. And when I had it. It was my daily driver.

[cougar20th]

Cars, Got several.
The current fastest since I sold my supercharged MonteCarlo SS is now my 1989 Tbird Supercoupe.

Others are
1964 F100
1969 Mustang Mach 1
1987 Mercury Cougar
1988 Iroc Camaro Convertible
2001 CrownVic

[cockerpunk]

to expound on my philosophy when it comes to cars, it was this video that changed my life. i watched this video ~5 years ago, and decided, it was stupid to keep modifying my car to make it go faster. instead, a far better investment, is learning to drive the car better. the cheapest, most economical, way to get a faster car, is improving your driving. im not say modding cars is dumb and insane HP builds are silly, almost every car i have is modified quite highly, im simply saying, that driving is more important than modding EVERY time. and rather than being a sunk cost, one you can never get back, being a better driver travels with you from car to car, through your lifetime.

its no secret how to build fast cars. it really just takes money. wrenching is one thing, but you can pay for wrenching too. when the rubber meets the road though, its the driving that determines how quick your car is.

without further ado, the insane 470hp narrowbody 911, on 80s tires ... driven to the limit:



i love watching his inputs ... dat wheel control ....

[flampaint]

I am far from owning one, but if money were no object I would pick one of these beauties any day over any car out there. (I've been lucky enough to be able to whip other people's 458s and Berlinettas around a racetrack without regard for wear and tear, so I've had my share of racing and driving experience)
Convenience? Usability? pah! Nonsense... this is about having fun driving

[cockerpunk]

more slow cars driven fast:

winter miata is best miata:

[FlawleZ]

Well its not 1000HP Corvette or Cadillac like some others here. But, it was built AND tuned 100% by me. ;-D S

Just an old 80's 300ZX making 545 RWHP 540 TQ.

[Automag Ranger]

Well its not 1000HP Corvette or Cadillac like some others here. But, it was built AND tuned 100% by me. ;-D S

Just an old 80's 300ZX making 545 RWHP 540 TQ.

That's awesome. Very impressive little car that probably hurt a lot of feelings. I'd certainly enjoy looking at pics of this over a Miata any day.