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Thread: PTP Fascination

  1. #1
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    Question PTP Fascination

    Why is it that some people are all gaga over any markers by Pro Team Products ?

    I just dont get it, the Micromags, the Cockers, why ?

    When you get past the anodizing (if the have other than black) they arent much IMHO.

    Am I biased because of the 2009 Micromag debacle , or the one that happened over on custom cockers ?


  2. #2
    I invoke my "corn dog analogy" for situations like this.



    Corn dogs are disgusting. They are a culinary perversion.

    But sometimes, for some reason, you just want a corn dog. You regret it afterwards, but by that time, it's obviously too late.

    I think it's essentially the same thing for some people with PTP products. For others, it's Tippmann products. They know better, but sometimes, they cave into the perversion.

    We all gotta have our outlets, so as far as that goes, maybe it's not the worst thing ever.
    "Accuracy by aiming."


    Definitely not on the A-Team.

  3. #3
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    The 2009 thing killed it for a lot of us. I was never big on the original Micromag with the integral barrel but took notice once they issued the models with the threaded barrels. Loved the different annos they did...but never owned one till just before they started offering the 2009 deal. Got in on that...still have it...still saddened that they didn't uphold their promises and that the product ended up basically junk.

  4. #4
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    I would assume it's the same rationale given for splash Mags a while ago. When Autocockers and Automags were in their prime, there were all kinds of custom, private label, and special edition Cockers. Automags had fewer such options, so those looking for a little something different went to splash and PTP.

    As for the MM2K9, doesn't Luke offer a machining service to make them not junk?

    Edit: Nevermind. I see on his site the service was discontinued. I will always be curious what the fix was. And now why it was discontinued. Did it only work on some of the bodies?
    Last edited by nak81783; 02-11-2016 at 08:27 PM.
    Last of the Salzburg Clan

  5. #5
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    The ano on the PTP mags and cockers are works of art, literally, the guy that did them left PK select and is a full time artist. Never really understood the black and non pk select ones. Also, they are a pretty good deal for a railless cocker threaded mag. I've never been a fan of the stainless bodies mainly because ano options were pretty boring. Even the splash mags are ruined by having that big chrome body and in some cases a polymer frame.

    Prices of mags in PK select ano are around $300, around $500 for the emags, and $400 for cockers. All less then what you'd pay for just the ano job to replicate the old PK select look.

    They were liked up until that 2009 and then they followed that disaster with that pump sniper that had all sorts of issues with the ano and sc feed.

    It's really interesting how a decent company can release **** products towards the end and tank the value of the earlier better quality products. Kind of like WDP and the A1, WGP with the trilogy and sr, and SP and the ion.
    Last edited by boo; 02-11-2016 at 08:49 PM.

  6. #6
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    For the record I was banned for asking questions about ptp's quality when they built the last body. Beemer considered it trolling to point out their terrible tolerances. Sad thing is that iirc I was quoting Tunaman. I have owned several PTP Emags. Most had problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MANN View Post
    For the record I was banned for asking questions about ptp's quality when they built the last body. Beemer considered it trolling to point out their terrible tolerances. Sad thing is that iirc I was quoting Tunaman. I have owned several PTP Emags. Most had problems.
    Most...if not all had some problems. You are correct.
    Email me for low prices on ALL AGD Products and more. tunaman5@verizon.net
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by nak81783 View Post
    Did it only work on some of the bodies?
    As far as I know I was able to increase velocity on the ones I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by nak81783 View Post
    I will always be curious what the fix was. And now why it was discontinued.
    For very specific (NON-selfish) reasons I have chosen to keep the info to myself. However, I will say I just want to distance myself from the MM2K9 and that I'm not really interested in the "mod" market. I will will always offer some services, just not looking to expand it any further than it is. Actually I have been trimming the mods for sometime now.

  9. #9
    The anno patterns are beautiful but the actual lines and features of the products never spoke to me. I would equate the pretty anno to the old saying "putting lipstick on a pig".

  10. #10
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    For me it was a nostalgia thing. Always wanted a micromag from seeing their ads in APG and one of my friends in highschool had one.

    This is my first Micromag, which turned out to be rare because the feedneck is on the reversed side. Still looking to buy this gun back.



    Once I got my first Micromag I was hooked. They take cocker barrels and the body/rail are one piece. Seemed like a no brainer to me.

    About 2 years ago I started on a mission to own every gun and product that PTP ever made. I came pretty close...







    http://www.pbase.com/rgunn4/ptp_museum

    So after having more PTP products then Forest (owner of PTP) currently has... I choose to pair down to just 2 Micromags and a PTP cocker.

    I sold off a lot of my guns because I wanted to focus on other projects since I pretty much accomplished what I set out to do and I felt it was time to move on. I'm sure I'll buy more PTP guns down the road.

    As for issues with PTP... I've only ever had a problem with a MM2K9 not fitting a xvalve till LUKE milled it for me. It also didn't fit my hyperframe so I sold it off.

    I now have this project with Caustic Customs and hope to make it my primary mech/electro.



    Needless to say I am a fan of PTP products.

  11. #11
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    I would applaud PTP's marketing enthusiasm and machining capability, but I have not had much luck with their shipping, and their quality control problems are apparent. If I have one of their products in hand and working, I find them pretty nice and relatively worthy. I prefer a used PTP product to ordering a new one. Many of their designs I don't like, but I don't hold that against them.

    I don't get it either. They have a lot of stuff that works, so I've assumed that there is some personal preference in there. ....it could be like a corndog indeed....I'll try to remember that next time I have one, maybe with some Dr. Pepper.

  12. #12
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    i own 4 now and it was the anno that first attracted me to them and will be the reason i buy any more. i've used the black one and other than having to change loaders due to a double feed problem i've had no real problems with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaman View Post
    Most...if not all had some problems. You are correct.
    I didn't want to mention your past comments about them but now it's evident.




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    Starting a thread with anything "PTP" in the title is like putting up the batsignal for Ross

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    I too don't understand the fascination with them. Before the advent of ULE bodies. The cocker threading was a benefit, but now i see them as cool anno but antiquated. They are heavy, even heavier with a classic valve. Plus, the double trigger frames or just benchmark frames in general are or have a poor safety design(always coming out when you least expect it) and the tolerances have a lot to be desired, compared to intelliframes.

    Eh, different strokes for different folks. Guess me not wanting them means more of a chance for those that do.

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    I will say, I LOVED all the money I made fixing them

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    Lol BigEvil. I do tend to gravitate toward PTP posts. Doesn't help that I do mass searches online for anything PTP related.

    Sounds like I am one of the rare few who has really never had any major issues with PTP products.

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    Exclamation

    I'm still waiting for the $15 dollar refund for the proprietary sear pin.

    And the free T shirt, and I paid $20 for an extra T shirt.......

    God forgives and forgets, I forgave them but I can't forget it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    I'm still waiting for the $15 dollar refund for the proprietary sear pin.

    And the free T shirt, and I paid $20 for an extra T shirt.......
    ditto

  20. #20
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    The 2K9s are basically a stylish slug body. There is enough meat to make it whatever you want if you're skilled or want to spend the money. The only issue I had with my 2K9 was the velocity issue and Luke fixed that. I know BigEvil keeps telling me the detents are in the wrong spot too. When I had it, I didn't get any feed problems despite that.

    I may pick it back up this summer
    Stay Classy, AO...
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  21. #21
    The Micromag offered a solution for all of the Automag's downsides: lighter aluminum body w/ integrated rail, cocker threads, improved detents.
    Add to that the finest factory ano options ever offered on any gun.

  22. #22
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    I own one black Micromag and have zero issues with it. Why did I want it to begin with? Compact, lightweight body with interchangeable barrels with a more old school cool factor that some run of the mill ULE body.

  23. #23
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    It must be nostalgia for me. My Micro was my first truly good gun. I was not crazy about the single trigger, but an Intelliframe fixed that. Mine performed flawlessly until the day I put it into storage. I took it out 8 years later and it needed a rebuild kit, now it is just as happy as always. As I think someone said, it was a ULE before there was a ULE. It is fairly light, really light compared to my SFL. And pretty compact with a tight barrel. I like that fact that its a true mechanical and the RT makes it as competitive as anything else.
    That which does not kill us, cripples us for life.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    Why is it that some people are all gaga over any markers by Pro Team Products ?

    I just dont get it, the Micromags, the Cockers, why ?

    When you get past the anodizing (if the have other than black) they arent much IMHO.

    Am I biased because of the 2009 Micromag debacle , or the one that happened over on custom cockers ?

    It was EARLY and it was COMMITTED.

    PTP was one of the first major, nationwide offerings of full production factory customer markers with MFG approval that I encountered. They were available in shops and catalogs, supported and approved by AGD, WGP, ICD and Sheridan, and they came in cool cuts and colors. Sure, there were custom shops doing similar things but not full production and not always widely available. In a world where everything was black, or silver, or one solid color, their offerings made a difference and really jumped out at buyers - there wasn't a PBN list of 20+ anodizers to easily choose from then, either. Most of their markers had functional upgrades as well as cosmetic ones, and they kept refining their platforms for a solid decade with multiple generations of markers, each an improvement over the last.

    The MM2K9 thing was a fiasco; I was there too, but it doesn't really reflect who PTP was when they were REALLY in the paintball business from the early 90s to the early 2000s...

    Imagine if Pontiac or Oldsmobile came back from the dead to make a one-off product based entirely on customer requests, but didn't really have the means to produce it anymore and the car turned out terrible - It might suck for customers, but it shouldn't reflect on their prior years of revolutionary developments and classic vehicles.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry View Post
    It was EARLY and it was COMMITTED.

    PTP was one of the first major, nationwide offerings of full production factory customer markers with MFG approval that I encountered. They were available in shops and catalogs, supported and approved by AGD, WGP, ICD and Sheridan, and they came in cool cuts and colors. Sure, there were custom shops doing similar things but not full production and not always widely available. In a world where everything was black, or silver, or one solid color, their offerings made a difference and really jumped out at buyers - there wasn't a PBN list of 20+ anodizers to easily choose from then, either. Most of their markers had functional upgrades as well as cosmetic ones, and they kept refining their platforms for a solid decade with multiple generations of markers, each an improvement over the last.

    The MM2K9 thing was a fiasco; I was there too, but it doesn't really reflect who PTP was when they were REALLY in the paintball business from the early 90s to the early 2000s...

    Imagine if Pontiac or Oldsmobile came back from the dead to make a one-off product based entirely on customer requests, but didn't really have the means to produce it anymore and the car turned out terrible - It might suck for customers, but it shouldn't reflect on their prior years of revolutionary developments and classic vehicles.
    PTP never had anything to do with ICD.

    Though they were one of the first companies to offer options for guns(namely the automag) that had little to no options, they were not the best when other options came about. Its easy to corner the market when you are alone in the field. It is sorely a different story when new and possibly better quality products come about from other companies...

    And please tell me, what revolutionary things did PTP do? Ocfering a different body/setup than what AGD had, yes nice, but if you do not adjust to the market trends & what players need, you will die in the products that whither on the shelves.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    ... but if you do not adjust to the market trends & what players need, you will die in the products that whither on the shelves.
    Pretty much the same thing that has been said of AGD.

    Unfortunately, what players need and what they want are two different things. In an industry whose backbone of customers are young men 14-20 years old, it was far too easy to poison the water hole for the various marketing groups. Faster, lighter, faster, add some bling, make it faster, more efficient, make it faster...and boom! Now we live in a time where the industry as a whole is on life support compared to the late 1990s and early 2000s and everyone suffers. Well, except some of those niche shops (Palmers, CCM) who specialize and customize and often go the opposite direction of industry conventional wisdom.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by JKR View Post
    Pretty much the same thing that has been said of AGD.

    Unfortunately, what players need and what they want are two different things. In an industry whose backbone of customers are young men 14-20 years old, it was far too easy to poison the water hole for the various marketing groups. Faster, lighter, faster, add some bling, make it faster, more efficient, make it faster...and boom! Now we live in a time where the industry as a whole is on life support compared to the late 1990s and early 2000s and everyone suffers. Well, except some of those niche shops (Palmers, CCM) who specialize and customize and often go the opposite direction of industry conventional wisdom.
    So this preoccupation with "bestest factory anno job", which appears to be a dominant theme here -- does that fall under what players "want", or what players "need"?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry View Post
    Imagine if Pontiac or Oldsmobile came back from the dead to make a one-off product based entirely on customer requests, but didn't really have the means to produce it anymore and the car turned out terrible - It might suck for customers, but it shouldn't reflect on their prior years of revolutionary developments and classic vehicles.
    But thats the point, it absolutely does reflect on everything PTP.






  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKR View Post
    Pretty much the same thing that has been said of AGD.

    Unfortunately, what players need and what they want are two different things. In an industry whose backbone of customers are young men 14-20 years old, it was far too easy to poison the water hole for the various marketing groups. Faster, lighter, faster, add some bling, make it faster, more efficient, make it faster...and boom! Now we live in a time where the industry as a whole is on life support compared to the late 1990s and early 2000s and everyone suffers. Well, except some of those niche shops (Palmers, CCM) who specialize and customize and often go the opposite direction of industry conventional wisdom.
    Actually, yes. AGD had admitted so much, with the late introduction of the ULE body, or more importantly, a threaded body. It is surmised that there are still thousands of powerfeed bodies in storage(or have been recycled-if they could be or scraped-more likely) that were bought for that cost AGD more than just money.

    Palmers is a mere shadow of itself. What was the last thing they had done, the lance? Ot exactly taking the market by storm. CCM(you shouldn't have gone there) is ****. They "reinvented" the pump scene, so you have overpriced production guns that could be made for 1/4th the price of their guns. Its not a custom shop, it just gives options on anno, but their barrels and regs suck. The SR1 was a failure and the JL2 or whatever did not sell. I think there where other problems, but i would needed to have cared to pay attention to it.

    A better view is what Inception Designs is doing. As they are a small shop, they are putting out great products with fantasic customer service. But the key is, they are not putting out products for the flavor of the month or fanboy market. They are looking at the diehards and lifers that keep the sport going. That is where the market is or needs to be. Put out a product that people want, for a good price and then see what the people are asking for. If you dictate what you will make, then people will go elsewhere.

    So no, you are wrong.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Actually, yes. AGD had admitted so much, with the late introduction of the ULE body, or more importantly, a threaded body. It is surmised that there are still thousands of powerfeed bodies in storage(or have been recycled-if they could be or scraped-more likely) that were bought for that cost AGD more than just money.
    Wait wait what? I'm not sure if I misunderstood your sentence structure... but what?!

    Cuz you know, those stainless bodies are more valuable to me than the ULE ones. That would be a freaking shame if they were scrapped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Palmers is a mere shadow of itself. What was the last thing they had done, the lance? Ot exactly taking the market by storm. CCM(you shouldn't have gone there) is ****. They "reinvented" the pump scene, so you have overpriced production guns that could be made for 1/4th the price of their guns. Its not a custom shop, it just gives options on anno, but their barrels and regs suck. The SR1 was a failure and the JL2 or whatever did not sell. I think there where other problems, but i would needed to have cared to pay attention to it.
    I LOL'd. Even I decided not to touch that one.

    But I'm not above dogpiling on top.

    Palmers: The $1224 Auto-Lance. Exactly what players want AND need!

    CCM: The $1199 SSR. Bolt action, BECAUSE REASON!

    CCM has flatly stated IT DOES NOT DO CUSTOM WORK.


    Some of you... I swear it sounds like you took oaths of fealty to these manufacturers. This is going beyond corn dog territory. I will have to rethink the analogy.

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