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Thread: If AGD Wanted To Go Electronic ?

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjeff View Post
    Is ROF a big issue now-a-days anyway? All major tournaments are capped below 13 now, and NXL is at 10.5 i believe. I cant think of the last time i went to a field and they allowed firing modes (although most people sneak by with ramping).
    That's where I started on my ramble. The lower acceptable rof lately is part of what makes the Rize, enmy, and vibe workable. The low pressure / low force bolt is slow and it gets counted as a "feature". I've been backing off on the rof on my mags since 2006. That is a nice thing about electronic control; you can set it for the particular game.

    While a new electronic frame would be more widely applicable, my daydream designs usually end up rail-less or integrated rail-frame layouts. It would cut out unibodies, but it opens up other possiblities.

  2. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    lets all just keep in mind i got **** on for days, by nearly everyone on this forum with a "name" including several admins, because i dared say something like this.

    as i stated in that thread too ... i thought this was common knowledge in the mag community. and it certainly should have been with the very folks ****ting on me.

    stay classy AO.

    EDIT: again, this is not a rip on AGD. i wish more of the old guard would have done the same thing (WGP eh hem). i think its fantastic that AGD is still around, and the way to do that is keep overhead low.
    Hey cockerpunk, not sure what you were ripped on about. Saying that AGD was a one man operation? That's interesting. Not sure why anyone would rip on you for that statement.
    Anyway, hopefully whatever reason there was is done and over with.

    Back to electronics.

    I agree NinJeff. ROF should not be big issue. 15 BPS should be max ROF. Tournaments don't allow that high and fields should never allow higher. So ROF should never be an issue.
    15 BPS max is easily attainable.

    Size of the frame is my issue. The hyperframe style remakes all use the same huge clacker. I would never agree to invest in a project to rebuild something that big. It has to be a smaller set-up or I just would not make it. So finding a smaller noid or using an LPR with a smaller valve and board are the options I know of. Not sure if they are possible. Everything has to fit in the frame too. No external LPR hanging off the gun somewhere.

    Cost. $350. Is just my idea of the sweet spot. Maybe it's not possible. At $500, we'll sell 25 like everything else that's near that price point for aftermarket parts.
    At $350 it can be built into a full gun and stay in the $1000 price range.

    Scott, I just need to come visit you. See all of these incarnations in person.
    Road Trip!
    AGD is in the house!
    Custom gun builds. All the parts. New Website. Factory Service available!
    www.airgundesigns.com

  3. #153
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    That little 1" noid is not the problem with the overly large Eframe's, but its the design of the frame itself. Have you seen one of my Minivert frames in person? What if I said the geometry of a Eframe and grips didn't need to be any bigger than that? But in fact it's exactly the same with more finger room and without enlarging the trigger guard. Not to mention that it does not need to be as tall as an Angel frame.

  4. #154
    I say put the board in the rear of the rail. and have battery space in the frame :-)

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by knownothingmags View Post
    I say put the board in the rear of the rail. and have battery space in the frame :-)
    Not necessary and not all mags have rails.

  6. #156
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    I'm working on an emag style design at the moment..was keeping this quiet until I got some testing done, but sod it! someone will only copy it lol...
    basically utilising a push/pull solenoid, ive found a real tiny one with decent force (would need a ult or similar) and a new custom trigger rod,
    it sits inline where the standard trigger rod would go, the trigger hits a micro switch before the front of the trigger rod which if the board is on your electro or keep it turned off for mech mode.

    hope that makes sense lol I can draw it up if that's easier to explain, happy to give Sandman any of my ideas

    Like I said its untested but happy to share my ideas

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by knownothingmags View Post
    I say put the board in the rear of the rail. and have battery space in the frame :-)
    tried this awhile back and the rail isnt deep enough. If i remember correctly.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by renie View Post
    I'm working on an emag style design at the moment..
    Mine is done.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Mine is done.
    look forward to seeing it mines been on the back burner for ages, I'e had no time what's so ever for personal projects

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Mine is done.
    Can't Wait!

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    Hey cockerpunk, not sure what you were ripped on about. Saying that AGD was a one man operation? That's interesting. Not sure why anyone would rip on you for that statement.
    Anyway, hopefully whatever reason there was is done and over with.

    Back to electronics.

    I agree NinJeff. ROF should not be big issue. 15 BPS should be max ROF. Tournaments don't allow that high and fields should never allow higher. So ROF should never be an issue.
    15 BPS max is easily attainable.

    Size of the frame is my issue. The hyperframe style remakes all use the same huge clacker. I would never agree to invest in a project to rebuild something that big. It has to be a smaller set-up or I just would not make it. So finding a smaller noid or using an LPR with a smaller valve and board are the options I know of. Not sure if they are possible. Everything has to fit in the frame too. No external LPR hanging off the gun somewhere.

    Cost. $350. Is just my idea of the sweet spot. Maybe it's not possible. At $500, we'll sell 25 like everything else that's near that price point for aftermarket parts.
    At $350 it can be built into a full gun and stay in the $1000 price range.

    Scott, I just need to come visit you. See all of these incarnations in person.
    Road Trip!
    Gordo has a way of saying something that is just a detriment. The way he writes, he comes off very obnoxious, arrogant and condescending, no matter if its the truth or not.

    While i won't try to spend your money, but if you do make sure its a weekend. We, the BEO will put you up, feed you and take you to our field were you can not only shoot these, but put them in real world applications. I am sure we can even drag Tuna out for the day

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    That's because no one likes you Mimsy


  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post

    Scott, I just need to come visit you. See all of these incarnations in person.
    Road Trip!
    I will order the cigars now.

    We can get Keith down here too and make it a 3some LOL

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigEvil View Post
    I will order the cigars now.

    We can get Keith down here too and make it a 3some LOL
    Say what?
    Quote Originally Posted by dano_____ View Post
    I keep forgetting to not feed my mags after midnight so they seem to multiply regularly.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by cougar20th View Post
    Say what?
    You are volunteered to a weekend stay at Che Fertitta when Sandman comes.

  16. #166
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    Pre Tunaball ?

  17. #167
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    Let's keep it on topic here - no fighting.

  18. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Mine is done.
    Hmmm... I guess my tax return next year is now spoken for...

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritchaser View Post
    Hmmm... I guess my tax return next year is now spoken for...
    Hypothetically, if there was such a thing (as a tax return or e-frame), I happen to have a bone stock classic mag that would really be fun with a single trigger e-frame, even if I could only get 8 bps out of it.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Gordo has a way of saying something that is just a detriment. The way he writes, he comes off very obnoxious, arrogant and condescending, no matter if its the truth or not.

    While i won't try to spend your money, but if you do make sure its a weekend. We, the BEO will put you up, feed you and take you to our field were you can not only shoot these, but put them in real world applications. I am sure we can even drag Tuna out for the day
    Quote Originally Posted by BigEvil View Post
    That's because no one likes you Mimsy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    Hey cockerpunk, not sure what you were ripped on about. Saying that AGD was a one man operation? That's interesting. Not sure why anyone would rip on you for that statement.
    Anyway, hopefully whatever reason there was is done and over with.
    i was as shocked as you were.

    automags: love the guns, love AGD ... some of the people who have taken over "the community?" not so much.

    i don't know what there deal is, but it seems no matter how obvious the statement i make is, they want to attack me for it. including the 3 page meltdown they had when i said that AGD was a small operation these days. i think they thought i was ripping on AGD. i don't know why because as i also stated in both threads, i wish more companies in the old guard did what AGD did, in order to keep the doors open and the guns supported. most of the old guard went out with a bang, and the biggest loss when that happens is to the guys who own and love the guns. AGD is still here for us, and thats great.

    thanks for what you do sandman, keep the doors open at AGD and we'll keep shooting the guns:



    "because every vengeful cop with a lesbian daughter, is having a bad day, and looking for someone to blame"

  21. #171
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    OK I'm lying.. I love you Gordo.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    Back to electronics.

    Size of the frame is my issue. The hyperframe style remakes all use the same huge clacker. I would never agree to invest in a project to rebuild something that big. It has to be a smaller set-up or I just would not make it. So finding a smaller noid or using an LPR with a smaller valve and board are the options I know of. Not sure if they are possible. Everything has to fit in the frame too. No external LPR hanging off the gun somewhere.
    These two frames are both narrower than a stock Intelli frame with DYE wrap arounds.
    The Mini Vert and LcE90 are identical in width (frame and grips). The LcE90 shown is fully engineered so this is the final design.



    The real factor in how a grip frame feels is indicated in the following pictures. Measurements are taken with with the triggers pulled (bottomed out) so "how far forward" the trigger sits when the marker is aired up is not figured, however it does factor in.

    This same measurement on the LcE90 is only 1.90"

    The trigger below is the Ultra Blade (Pneumag ONLY) which has a different geometry than a standard Intelli trigger. It incorporates new geometry that has considerably less travel than a standard intelli style trigger. This equates to more room inside the trigger guard than the standard configuration.




    The LcE90 will give you an additional 0.35" more space inside the trigger guard than the Deflator grip frame, that is without moving the guard forward. (Still fits an 8" Automag rail.)

    Last edited by luke; 12-03-2016 at 09:31 PM.

  23. #173
    This looks super promising for me. My mole-hands are great for rock climbing, but not so good for fitting in cramped trigger guards. I'm looking forward to this!

  24. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Mine is done.
    Salivating...

  25. #175
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    what about those of us who don't like 90 degree frames?

  26. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by vintage View Post
    what about those of us who don't like 90 degree frames?
    Keith has that covered (soon I hope).








  27. #177
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    Glad to see AGD alive and kicking, even if its only in baby steps for the time being, atleast they are here for us and I appreciate that. Been out of paintball for some years due to life, but finally getting some time to put into paintball again and the prospects of AGD being their for tech, service and possibly some new goodies is very exciting. Keep it up, you have my gratitude Sandman and anyone else helping him out.

  28. #178
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    I want to touch on this subject in only one part: The spacing of a trigger in relation to the back of the frame....

    Its all relative, and when you start plugging electronics inside,... you need to have that space.

    With the VER frames,.. you have so little material between the back of the trigger to the back of the solenoid,... then cram a trigger switch inside,...

    The materials and the width is minimal.

    Sear geometry needs to be almost PERFECT or the high rates of fire will not occur,.....

    When people talk about cutting material here and there,.. use caution,... because I can almost guaranty you will need it back for other parts later on.


    In a purely mechanical point,..... I don't believe cutting some materials out will do much harm.
    _______________________
    Jai "P8ntbal4me" Menard

  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by p8ntbal4me View Post
    I want to touch on this subject in only one part: The spacing of a trigger in relation to the back of the frame....

    Its all relative, and when you start plugging electronics inside,... you need to have that space.

    With the VER frames,.. you have so little material between the back of the trigger to the back of the solenoid,... then cram a trigger switch inside,...

    The materials and the width is minimal.

    Sear geometry needs to be almost PERFECT or the high rates of fire will not occur,.....

    When people talk about cutting material here and there,.. use caution,... because I can almost guaranty you will need it back for other parts later on.


    In a purely mechanical point,..... I don't believe cutting some materials out will do much harm.
    I agree 100%

    The micro switch was by FAR the biggest problem developing the LcE90. Using an AGD Intelli style trigger poses many design and potential performance problems. I spent 2 weeks and exhausted fistfuls of ideas to maintain AGD's trigger platform so everyone could use their favorite trigger. In the end the trade-offs of using an Intelli trigger wasn't worth sacrificing improvements by simply re-engineering how it's done.

  30. #180
    Will there be a 45 style in the long run? I don't think this was ever answered...or was it?

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