Question about on/off o rings

[tucson.az.jbreen]

I'm noticing 18, 19, 22, and 23 are all labeled "on/off o ring"

The x valve rebuild kit on airgundesigns.com says it has "2 small on/off o rings"

I'm going to assume that the two large on/off orings are in fact in the kit.

Can someone confirm this to me before I place my order?

Many thanks for all the patience and help I've received here,

Jim

[Tunaman]

I'm noticing 18, 19, 22, and 23 are all labeled "on/off o ring"

The x valve rebuild kit on airgundesigns.com says it has "2 small on/off o rings"

I'm going to assume that the two large on/off orings are in fact in the kit.

Can someone confirm this to me before I place my order?

Many thanks for all the patience and help I've received here,

Jim

18 and 23 are the same oring...same as a L7 powertube oring
19 is the RT on/off small oring...goes inside the RT o/off and is the same as the Flatline Check Valve oring
22 is the RT Reg pin oring... same as the RT On/off oring same as 34

[tucson.az.jbreen]

Thanks tuna.

[tucson.az.jbreen]

One last thing,

I keep reading about quad o rings,

Would I need them for any reason rebuilding a mechanical, x valved mag?

Having trouble getting the valve to do single shots.
I've been told it could be bad on/off o rings.

Should I have a set of these to test out?
Or would they be strictly for emag purposes?

Thanks,
Jim

[Tunaman]

Emag only. Are you sure #22 oring is installed on the on/off pin before you put the on/off in the hole? If you cant do single shots something is wrong. Send it here and I will fix it.

[tucson.az.jbreen]

Yes. #22 is installed on the pin.

I have been putting 23 on to the assembly, so both o rings are on top of the assembly when I put it into the valve.

Should I be putting 23 directly into the valve?

Or should they be concentric on the The on/off assembly?

[Tunaman]

Yes. #22 is installed on the pin.

I have been putting 23 on to the assembly, so both o rings are on top of the assembly when I put it into the valve.

Should I be putting 23 directly into the valve?

Or should they be concentric on the The on/off assembly?

I always put #23 down in the hole first. Install the on/off with 22 on the pin and feel the "click" when it goes inside of 23.

[tucson.az.jbreen]

Ok, thanks tuna. I'm hoping this small fix is the answer. I have a rebuild kit on the way. If I can't get it right with New on/off o rings, I'll send the gun your way.

Thanks,
Jim

[Spider-TW]

A too short on/off pin can behave like a bag o-ring. A quad o-ring can cover for a too short pin on a regular valve because they seal lower. Normally you wouldn't use a quad outside of an e-mag type setup. You can use them if you match the pin length, but they are buna and not much help except for low friction.

[tucson.az.jbreen]

Thanks for the info spider.

It is the stock .750 pin that came with the valve.

I ended up ordering the quad o rings anyways.

Where would it go if I were to try it out?

Which number would I be replacing?

Thanks,
Jim

[athomas]

It would be replacing the #22 oring.

[maniacmechanic]

Thanks for the info spider.

It is the stock .750 pin that came with the valve.

I ended up ordering the quad o rings anyways.

Where would it go if I were to try it out?

Which number would I be replacing?

Thanks,
Jim

so this begs the question , how would a 750 on/off pin work with a quad ring ??

[tucson.az.jbreen]

I did some reading on quad o rings, and have been led to believe they can be used interchangably with regular o rings assuming you can find the right size.

The manufacturing marks where the two halves of the mold come together are recessed, and in addition to that they have two points of contact providing a better seal with less friction on the moving component.

I did all of this reading on a website that sells quad o rings, and I'm sure they just want to sell me quad o rings, but does anyone else think there could be some weight to their arguments?

Has anyone ever tried a build using all or mostly quad o rings?

[Spider-TW]

so this begs the question , how would a 750 on/off pin work with a quad ring ??

If you have read a few of the pin discussions here, you will remember that we discuss shortening pins by 0.005" to 0.010". I mention that for size comparison.

The quad o-ring is about 0.070" tall like a normal o-ring, but with two sealing surfaces on top and bottom instead of one in the middle. If the regular o-ring seals at about 0.035" above the top of the on/off, the quad seals about 0.010" from the bottom. Technically, it is not a line but a surface seal, but it is probably about 0.010" wide or so. So a quad lowers the seal about 0.025", which is like having an on/off pin of 0.775" with a standard o-ring (which is not good). This is where the e-mag pins get their shorter length (for use with a quad).

If you use a quad on the on/off, you have to use a shorter pin.

They have less friction, yes.

They are made of buna; they go bad much faster than urethane. Buying extras at the same time you buy your first one doesn't help with shelf life. I did that. I felt silly.

I wouldn't use one unless you had no way around friction reduction.

[tucson.az.jbreen]

I have the kit and it seems like 18 or 23 are not in the x valve rebuild kit...

When you said they were the same as the L7 power tube o ring did you mean to say that they are not in the kit?

[athomas]

The X-valve rebuild kit should have orings 18 and 23. They are standard on-off orings that come in all retro and X-valves. They just happen to be the same size as the level 7 powertube kit.
The X-valve kit lists 2 powertube orings.

[tucson.az.jbreen]

When I lay the old ones out, I can not find ones that match in the pile of new ones. Are the new ones smaller and stretch to fit?

[tucson.az.jbreen]

[athomas]

The 3 orings in the upper right corner look like the ones you are looking for. The 2 small ones together on the left look like on-off top orings that would fit inside them.

[Tunaman]

The 3 orings in the upper right corner look like the ones you are looking for. The 2 small ones together on the left look like on-off top orings that would fit inside them.

I dont think so...
Top right 3 look like L10 inside the carrier orings
Top left 3 look like Reg pin/on/off top orings
The single oring above the black circlip looks like the powertube/on/off hole oring.

[tucson.az.jbreen]

After work I will lay out the old o rings along side the respective pieces of the on off assembly, and I'll lay them next to the new ones.

When I did this earlier though, there were no obvious matches for the top and bottom o rings in the on/off.

I believe I have the two small o rings.

I'll try again tonight, pics to follow.

Thanks,
Jim

[athomas]

I dont think so...
Top right 3 look like L10 inside the carrier orings
Top left 3 look like Reg pin/on/off top orings
The single oring above the black circlip looks like the powertube/on/off hole oring.

You would know better. I was having a hard time with size comparison and was just going by ruler and percentage approximation on a screen. It was difficult due to the resolution. Obviously not accurate enough. I should have gotten my orings out and did a real size comparison.

[Tunaman]

You would know better. I was having a hard time with size comparison and was just going by ruler and percentage approximation on a screen. It was difficult due to the resolution. Obviously not accurate enough. I should have gotten my orings out and did a real size comparison.

Well you know also... after seeing these orings day in and day out for 20 something years just looking at them becomes second nature...until you run into the #780 banjo bolt orings. They fit NOTHING else in a mag. When i think about the above picture more, the oring above the black c-clip may very well be the plastic backup washer. That washer and the powertube oring are basically the same outer diameter. Hard to tell from the pic.