** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[BlackVCG]

Try using the blue KC Oil if you can get it. With a high performance setup like LX, you really can see the benefit from using a high performance oil like KC.

[ogre55]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
Try using the blue KC Oil if you can get it. With a high performance setup like LX, you really can see the benefit from using a high performance oil like KC.

I'm surprised you would reccomend KC Oil when AGD's own Autolube is just Gold Cup repackaged.

Ogre

[BlackVCG]

I'm well aware of that. Just because AGD puts it with there guns doesn't mean I like it or it's actually a good oil. The way I see it, it's a decent oil, but it drys out o-rings and discolors them. KC is the superior oil. RobAGD and I both use nothing but KC and I know Rob has yet to replace any o-rings in his RT, which he's had since 1996. We're working on getting Tom to switch to KC oils, but there is a big price difference.

[ogre55]

Now see what you done?



I am going to have to go and get KC Oil after I ordered and received 2 tubes of Aotolube for me and a friend. Damn.

Oh well. Paintball is an expensive sport and if it means better use of my RT, I'll make the investment. What's a good place to get it? My friend ordered a bottle from I and I Sports some 3 weeks ago and he is still waiting for it.

Ogre

[BlackVCG]

Here's a list of dealers that sell KC Oils. I can get it at a few local stores for about $5 a bottle. One bottle will easily last a year or so.

http://www.kercon.com/dealerlocator.htm

[LittleJP]

sigh i finally get my lvl 10 in and i cant seem get it to work correctly...

alright im using an rtpro input pressure @950 (if that makes a difference)


Following the instructions on the site I started with the carrier with 2 grooves on it and no dots.. LEAKED HEAVILY from barrel.. (im talking a 100 psi/a sec).. assuming it was the described barrel leak i upped the velocity hoping it would stop. It actually seemed to get worse right up until the point wher air came out of the back of the gun..
now down to 2500 psi .. i figured it was the wrong carrier... same situation now 2200 psi... went to the 1.5 carrier which very snug on the back of the bolt and got same result yay 1800psi... convinced now that it wasnt the carrier but either the spring and/or shims i began to try diffferent combinations to no avail... i put back in the non lvl 10 componants just to make sure it was the kit and not my gun and my gun worked as normal...
*note i did the thing where you install the lvl10 with no shims and push on the bolt face while its leaking to hear if it changes tone.. and it didnt change at all

So basicaly facts are:
pretty sure I have the carrier picked right (the one wiht one solid line and no dots)

Heavy venting from barrel..... about 100 psi a sec..

No change in springs or increase in velocity made the leak stop or even slow (unless you count when the velocity went up enought to make it vent out back of gun instead of front

gun works fine with Non lvl 10 parts...

I am having the exact same problem as demonguy and lilfroboy. I installed the LX in my retro valve and it began to work after finding the right carrier (1.5) that worked. However, after about 40 shots it just vented air out of the barrel at a VERY fast rate, quickly bleeding my air off. So today I got a fill and it did the same huge leak thing. I switched carriers about 5 times, tried shims, no shims, spring size, etc. Nothing worked, still just vented out barrel, but stopped when I pulled trigger (didnt shoot, though). Having almost run out of air, I put the original assembly in and it worked fine. I had an extra co2 tank, so I installed LX on my classic valve. It did the same thing, venting out barrel at very high rate. Again I went through, trying all possible combinations of carriers, shims, springs, to no avail. (Yes, I tried raising, lowering velo., didnt do anything)

Please help, or send me to someone who can help. I don't live near anyone with much knowledge about LX, so I doubt anyone nearby can fix this. Thanks.

BlackVCG: Measure the bolt pin length. Use dial calipers and measure from the tip of the bolt to the tip of the pin sticking out the back. It should be 2.010". Also, is the nylon backing washer in place and are you installing the carrier with the o-ring side first? Test fit the o-ring and carrier on the bolt pin before you install it to make sure it has a good friction fit to it. If it doesn't try going down in carrier sizes. If none of the carriers get the o-ring tight on the bolt, then try a new o-ring since they all differ in size.

LittleJP: Haven't gotten home (from school) yet to measure bolt pin, but I was using the backing washer and the oring/carrier combination (carrier 1.0) was getting a good friction fit for me

BlackVCG: Does your carrier have the black o-ring on the outside and is it in good condition? Are you installing the carrier with the o-ring side pointed towards the back of the valve? Are you using any shims?

LittleJP: I have tried with and w/o shims. black oring looks fine. I am installing everything in the right orientation. This leads me to believe the bolt pin IS the problem, which i will verify tonight.

[nospmas311]

Hey. I just installed the LvL. 10 but have not been able to shoot paint out of it. I put my squegee in it to test and it fires and works fine, but seems a tad bit hard. I've tried adding more shims and am at the .5 carrier. The 0 carrier does not let the marker fire. Any ideas?

[Havoc_online]

shims dont change how hard the bolt is, only the ponit that the bolt can release pressure, just leave 2.

the object is to use the BIGGEST carrier that doesnt leak, not the samllest that fires

hope this helps.

[nospmas311]

that helps alot. I thought I wanted the smallest that fired. Thanks

[k9hero]

HMM i use a automag classic and i was thinking about bying a lvl 10. But looking at this page and all the problems i just want to know if its worth it?

[WAH11]

Ha Guy's and Gal's,

I got my level 10 the other day, no instructions came with the bolt but it didn't mater. I spent 2 hours in this site reading all the postings from people who have already installed a level 10, i took there advice and in 5 minutes my mag was running great.not 1 probem so far.

Thanks everyone for your help, i made the installation of the bolt so eazy.

WAH11

[mrhooie]

Originally posted by k9hero
HMM i use a automag classic and i was thinking about bying a lvl 10. But looking at this page and all the problems i just want to know if its worth it?

worth every cent and every minute

[kutter]

OK, got my Level 10 in for my SFL and went to install it and the bolt will not fit, it gets hung up on the stainless insert on the mainbody. Now, it appears that it has developed a bit of a lip, but before I break out the ole' wood rasp and go to hacking away, I was looking for some input from some folks. I read some post earlier about some similar things but do not recall anything concerning SFL's. So would it be best to sand down the insert, since it seems that the lip would have developed as a result of bolt motion over time?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

[Havoc_online]

the SFL needs a different sized bolt.(I'm pretty sure, anyway)

[BlackVCG]

The SFL needs a larger bolt than the stock LX bolt. If you got the SFL bolt from AGD, then you have the right bolt and just need to smooth out the SS insert to get it to fit.

[kutter]

Yup, I got the level 10 kit from AGD, well I guess I will have to give that a go then, thanx for the info Black

BlackVCG: Yes, but did you specify that you needed an SFL bolt? If you didn't then you need to get the real SFL bolt. The difference is the tip is larger so it has less blowback.

[JodoCast]

My level ten works great

but when i get to about 800 to 900 psi left on my tank gauge

it stops working

what should i do??

any feedback would be great

thanks

will

[lillfroboy]

nothing, its what its supposed to do, it needs alot of psi to opperated thats why you turn up your velocit to let more air in to power the LvL 10

[drg]

Perhaps someone could assist -
I am installing a Level 10 kit on my classic. I cannot seem to find a carrier that, with the o-ring installed, is anywhere near "snug" on the bolt stem ... even the smallest one is still loose. Sure enough when I install and gas to check for carrier fitment, it leaks massively when the trigger is released.

[athomas]

Perhaps someone could assist -
I am installing a Level 10 kit on my classic. I cannot seem to find a carrier that, with the o-ring installed, is anywhere near "snug" on the bolt stem ... even the smallest one is still loose. Sure enough when I install and gas to check for carrier fitment, it leaks massively when the trigger is released.

Make sure all the shims are removed before you try the carrier and oring. If the smallest carrier is still too loose with the current oring, try another oring.

[drg]

No shims being used... tried all three o-rings and none is even close to snug ...?

Anyone know the specifications of the o-rings?

[bry10bry]

NEWB
I just bought a used automag rt ule lvl 10 x valve HPA..
I cleaned oiled and put the gun back together straight, attempted chronographing my gun and it shoots nice then after a little while it stops cocking or reloading (like there is no pressure in the gun). The tank is not empty, I tried reading the manual and some posts but I have no clue..?

One other thing, that little black foamie thing fell off the front of the lvl 10.. ??

Thanks.

[athomas]

No shims being used... tried all three o-rings and none is even close to snug ...?

Anyone know the specifications of the o-rings?

It is strange that your orings are too loose with the smallest carrier. That rarely happens. If the orings are all too loose, you may need an oring from another batch.

[Skiddz]

I have a new tac-one and i realize the level 10 isn't tuned from the factory. What exactly needs changing from new, just the shims and carriers to achieve the anti chop functionality?

[athomas]

I have a new tac-one and i realize the level 10 isn't tuned from the factory. What exactly needs changing from new, just the shims and carriers to achieve the anti chop functionality?

Remove the shims when tuning. Use the largest carrier that does not leak. Always use the same white carrier oring when testing carrier sizes. If you have problems where the gun normally fires properly, but doesn't reset after a bolt vent due to a breach blockage, then add a couple of shims. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother with the shims.

The carriers affect operational bolt stick.
Shims affect how far the bolt has to travel before it can reset.
Bolt springs affect the bolt impact force, which is the anti-chop ability.

[Skiddz]

so all i need to do to tune my level 10 is adjust the carrier and wage if i need to add shims?

[athomas]

so all i need to do to tune my level 10 is adjust the carrier and wage if i need to add shims?

Yes, just adjust your carrier to prevent bolt stick. Use the stiffest spring that allows your gun to fire consistently. You should be able fire your gun almost 20fps lower than your desired fps setting. If the gun stops firing if you adjust the velocity setting less than 20 fps below the desired setting, then your bolt spring is too stiff and you should use the next smaller/lighter one.

[Duke Henry]

O.K., I have acquired a SCUBA and can put in my level 10 tonight.

But, since I am still a MAG newb, I have a really stupid question.

I have put in a 1.0 carrier, no shims, and the stock spring as suggested to start off.

Now, when I air up the marker air comes pouring out of the barrel. Now, I rechecked my carrier and it really is the best choice. The 1.0 is pretty snug, whereas the 1.5 just slides off. The .5 is really tough to get off.

So, I should also state that my velocity has to be really high. I had previously cranked it up, and if I keep cranking it up I notice that my leak does get much weaker. However, I have begun to see the thread on the back adjuster, and I don't want the thing flying out on me either!

It is not leaking out of the back, but if I keep turning it, can I damage the gun?

Also, when I get it to the point where it stops leaking, pulling the trigger does NOTHING.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[slateman]

My lvl 10 seems really loud, like I'm firing with the stock bolt and stuff. Is this normal?

Second: When I install and test the carrier pack I hear a very slight leak. I have to put my ear right up to the hole in the powerfeed to hear it. I went down to the smallest carrier (the one with no grooves, right?) and I still heard it. It's almost completly inaudiable at a distance of over 1 foot. Is this normal?


Edit: I just realized that my tank has 800-900 psi left. Is this an issue?

[Havoc_online]

Duke Henry if you can see threading, you might be turning down the velocity.(I assume it's a RT/Emag valve and not an A.I.R. valve)...remember clockwise is higher velocity.....counter clockwise is lower velocity...(I'd put 2 shims)

slateman you may have a bad o'ring if it leaks with the zero carrier, I'd just start over with a new o'ring. It shouldnt leak.