CycloneMag?

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Lobos
    Registered User
    • Oct 2006
    • 16

    #1

    CycloneMag?

    This is a question for the tinkerers out there. Could there be a way to adapt a C98 Cyclone feed to an automag? Probably on a Warp Left/Right body?

    My reasoning behind this is that the automag is currently the quietest and most accurate (consistent) of the mechanical markers, and with the X-Valve (RT) can reach an ROF that nears those of the electros and with a bit of modding (Pneumag) can be brought up to par, in terms of ROF, to an electro. But, there is one thing where it has been left behind, and it is that to have any reasonable ROF without chopping or chuffing you need an agitated/forcefeed hopper which are invariably electronic in nature, thus you don't have a completely mechanical system. So, out there another company makes a forcefed hopper that uses the excess air from the system to feed balls at aproximately 15bps without using electronics. This could be the last piece of the puzzle in making a COMPLETE mechanical system.

    Yes, I know, Q-Loader. Its a great option, but it has too many drawbacks. The 100-rnd capacity limits the amount of suppression fire you can give, you can't top it off in between firefights, have to use special pods, and takes extra time to load. We sometimes use agressive fire and maneuver tactics (we play woodsball/tactical games) that require a lot of suppressive fire to execute, many times using an entire hopper during a single maneuver.

    Unfortunately I don't have much expertise in tinkering with automags. But, I'm thinking combining some of the engineering from the pneumag, that uses some of the gas/air from the marker with the Custom98's Cyclonefeed might yield some interesting results. Instead of running the extra air to a piston you could route it to the cyclone feed. Though how this would be done will require some thinking, as well as how to mount it.

    EDIT
    I probably will not try this myself for a long while, saving up some of my paycheck to get a Tac-One, so won't be able to tinker for a long while. Just putting up the challenge out there for the tinkerers.
    Last edited by Lobos; 05-14-2007, 03:28 PM.
  • Ninjeff
    it only takes one.
    • Jan 2007
    • 1205

    #2
    that would be nifty. I dig the new X7 hoppers. Nice low profile.

    Or you could get a warp feed....

    But i understand what your going for....

    Comment

    • TwilightG
      www.BigEvilOnline.com

      • Mar 2007
      • 1387

      #3
      Yes.. I'm digging up an old thread

      I was thinking of this very same idea this morning during my commute to work and decided to see if anyone else considered the idea.

      Just a few thoughts on it...
      If I'm not mistaken, the cyclone feed requires somewhere around 400 psi to operate. Just a bit too much for the pneu internals that most of us are using now. However, I found a few upgrades which drop the operating pressure down to about 200 psi (as well as increase the feed rate). Still a little on the high side, but do-able.

      I was thinking that we currently use an MSV-2 slider valve to actuate the MPA-3 piston for pneumags. I don't know if it's out there, but if there was another slider valve w/ 2 outputs, it could power the cyclone.
      I suppose one of the biggest problems would be timing. I think that you would want the cyclone to feed on the trigger-return instead of trigger-pull. I don't know if there is a valve capable of handling this.
      That can definitely make things tricky.

      Personally, I'd love to try it out but just don't have the money for it right now. The Cyclone feed system itself is relatively inexpensive (about $60 new) but then there's upgraded internals, pneu's, and of course a warp body.

      I think it would look great on a Tac body!

      Comment

      • angrysasquatch
        Registered User
        • Jun 2006
        • 279

        #4
        Hmm, does anyone have a cad drawing of a warp-right body? I'd like to do some tinkering in Inventor on it. Even some approximate measurements would be helpful, then I could adapt it to the existing sluggo drawing. Also cyclone measurements would also be helpful, does it attatch like the A-5 one did? I vaguely remember its mounting holes and such.

        Comment

        • Warwitch
          Resident Skeptic

          • May 2006
          • 3176

          #5
          This has been kicked around on a few forums. Honestly, the last thing a Mag needs is something else sucking up air Like the concept, but the function would be meh.

          Comment

          • TwilightG
            www.BigEvilOnline.com

            • Mar 2007
            • 1387

            #6
            Originally posted by Warwitch
            This has been kicked around on a few forums. Honestly, the last thing a Mag needs is something else sucking up air Like the concept, but the function would be meh.
            But.. but.. there would be no batteries!

            Pneumatic trigger, pneumatic hopper, speed of an electro... it'd be great!

            But yeah, at some point the air efficiency (or lack of) would just make it impractical. I suppose we could just stick to Q-loaded pneumags.

            I still love the tinkering/customization idea of it

            Comment

            • angrysasquatch
              Registered User
              • Jun 2006
              • 279

              #7
              Hmm, this has got me thinking now. What I'm thinking now is like a Q-loader, with another stream of balls loading in the back, powered by an air turbine. You'd have the Q basically as a buffer, then the balls loading in the back continually replenish that buffer. If there was a air turbine which didn't leak any air, you'd have it fed by an LPR, and the pressure set on the LPR equates to the pressure of the force feed put on by the turbine. You could maybe have the extra balls fed into the Q inside the Q instead of external (you'd remove the spring system).

              Whaddaya think? Possible? Usable?

              Anyone know what this "air turbine" I keep referring to might be in the commercial world? A die grinder motor maybe?

              Comment

              • phizz
                Registered User

                • Jan 2006
                • 1353

                #8
                I thought the cyclone worked on the blow back after the marker was fired? or something like that...

                Comment

                • viper-mayhem
                  sinisterops.com
                  • Mar 2007
                  • 153

                  #9
                  I asked this same question on PBN under HOPPERS.

                  It moves the piston on the shot and a spring mechanism is the one that feeds/turns the cyclone, so it feeds after the shot. The mounting would be somewhat difficult but the problems is where to drill the hole to power this. The pneumag internals is probably the way to go.

                  Comment

                  • TwilightG
                    www.BigEvilOnline.com

                    • Mar 2007
                    • 1387

                    #10
                    Originally posted by viper-mayhem
                    I asked this same question on PBN under HOPPERS.

                    It moves the piston on the shot and a spring mechanism is the one that feeds/turns the cyclone, so it feeds after the shot. The mounting would be somewhat difficult but the problems is where to drill the hole to power this. The pneumag internals is probably the way to go.
                    Right.. I think connecting a low pressure hose should be sufficient but the trick would be to actuate the cyclone after the shot.

                    Meh, it's a cool concept but again, probably not too practical. I would still love to try to rig something together just to see if I can do it but it's just not worth the time and $$ for me.

                    Comment

                    • angrysasquatch
                      Registered User
                      • Jun 2006
                      • 279

                      #11
                      I think it might still be possible, since the cyclone ram first moves in, then as it moves back out under spring force, the cup rotates. The time it takes for it to move in might be enough time for the bolt to return. Either way, the cup is only attempting to push the balls in under thte load of a spring, and as a result could wait any amount of time to move back.
                      Depending on all sorts of air pressure formulas, this just might be possible. Anyone in here an engineer, or know how to do this sort of thing?

                      Edit: anyone remember the precursor to the cyclone? The loader that came on the Tippmann Factory F/A? You would just wind that thing up at each reload, and it would put energy in the spring, which would turn the cup automatically each time there was no load (ie. a shot fired) It's definitely possible, worst case, you'd have to weaken the spring force in the cyclone.

                      Comment

                      • dvannord
                        Registered User
                        • Jun 2007
                        • 5

                        #12
                        Don't run the cyclone off of air. Have it catch the bolt after the gun has fired. As the bolt is pushed back by the spring, the cyclone is turned, feeding a ball into the chamber. You would need to mill a slot into the body and redesign some of the cyclone.

                        You could also just make a bigger Q-pod. Filling them is not so bad. I just slap a revvy on the reloading device. It works much better than AIC's 500 round thing. I'll bet you could wind a pod at an insane rate if you went so far as to put a halo on it...

                        Comment

                        • Jaan
                          It's Pronounced *John*

                          • Apr 2005
                          • 1310

                          #13
                          I'd actually do it electrically if I was going to put a Cyclone on a 'Mag. A decent rechargeable battery to power everything and leave the air to firing the gun. Of course, I'm also thinking of doing a bullpup...

                          Comment

                          • viper-mayhem
                            sinisterops.com
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 153

                            #14
                            BT has something called a rip clip and it is an cyclone style electro hopper made by Halo(or odyssey). You could look into something like that.

                            Comment

                            • angrysasquatch
                              Registered User
                              • Jun 2006
                              • 279

                              #15
                              Buh buh but... I wanted no batteries... I've got a Halo to use, this is just for kicks.

                              I don't think powering it mechanically is a great idea, because you'd have to mill a slot in your body to do it, you'd probably make two slots and rods on either side, or else it would cause undue wear on everything, and connecting those linkages so that they will be reliable will be very hard.

                              I did a little investigating, and the M98 cyclone conversions come with a little peice to scoop the balls in and it might be a good way to attach it to the gun, like it's done on a 98 with the tilting feed for cleaning. Then you could get away with milling the rail only and leaving the body as-is. This is what I'm talking about: http://www.tippmannparts.com/index.c...categoryID=111

                              If anyone has one and can take measurements for me, that would be great.

                              Comment

                              Working...