What it would take to make a mag my primary gun again

[Lohman446]

Before I get slaughtered by everyone on this board - I shot mags for a long time and have experienced the "joy" of level ten. I have had an E-mag with an awesome trigger. I am discussing a speedball marker, for a "toy" or woodsball (seperate) a modified warp feed - like the GEN 2 unreleased warp would be cool.


Battery integrated to trigger frame - standard 9V like many other high end guns are capable of using.

A good eye system - if you choose to face it or not LX is the COPS of AGD.

The ability to shoot below 800PSI in the tank.

No statement by the manufacturer about chrono procedures or indication that a 20FPS variation was acceptable.

Better reliability. My old classic mags were great markers as far as reliability, perhaps the best I have had in a long time. I never seemed to have a happy X-valve/LX setup. I worked on my E-mag much more than I work on my Shockers.

I still like the profile (perhaps why I shoot Shockers).

Tournament legal out of the box.

Competetive price - considering they are not the "in" thing you're likely going to have to be better priced than the Shockers.

I really don't care about built in mechanical mode.

[TheTramp]

I'm not sure if you are just complaining about mags or are really looking for a gun you can get tomorrow.

The only thing that fits some of your "requirments" is a devil mag. Eyes, no battery pack, etc.

Good luck with the "statement from the mgf" and the L10 is certenly no COPS.

[Lohman446]

Its not so much as a complaint as much as a justification of why I don't shoot a mag at this point. I know that mags are a reasonably competetive marker. I realize they have there strong points. It may sound like complaining, it really isn't. Whether or not AGD produces anything like this, well I really dont care. Its more of a for information purposes post, a get to think post.

Edit: Let me clarify the "Cops" statement - COPS WDP argued was so great that it was better than eyes, and seemed to hold away from eyes for it. Its what I picture AGD doing... holding tight to LX saying eyes are not needed with it. I realize the X-mag was an exception but those were barely a production marker, more of a custom concept, complete with the price to match.

[teufelhunden]

Agree with Lohman. While the E-Mag does have some strong points, it's still weak compared to its competitors. Like, for instance, the shootup that seems to be acceptable and its inability to go deep into the tank. And while LX is great at stopping chops, it still requires a cycle of the gun which disallows you from putting paint downfield if your next trigger pull is immediate; with eyes, it just won't allow it to go unless the paint is there, it doesn't have to find out the hard way.

I actually think that as.. bad as the battery pack is, it's necessary for the balance of the marker, E-Mags are really the only 'Mags that ever felt well balanced.

[tyrion2323]

I agree with Lohman and Teuf - the 'mag cannot remain in its current form and remain a competitor. Compared with some of the super-markers such as the Intimidator, Matrix, Cyborg, Shocker, Viking, etc, the E-Mag and X-Mag pale for obvious reasons:

- Poor efficiency
- No Eye System
- Limited Air Use (cannot go below 900psi effectively)
- Bulky feel
- Ugly Valve
- Short-Stroking

In order to compete, AGD will have to remedy all of these problems. The X-Mag was a step in the right direction, but it has retained too many of the poor qualities that have helped make 'mags obselete.

I hate to say it folks, but hype is not the reason that the 'mag has become obselete. It's a tired, old design which needs to be heavily updated for today's paintball scene.

[phantomhitman]

O NOSS!!!111111 do not talk junk about mags on ao
(as once said by the leet pbn people here)

i love mags, and i will always own one. but i will say they are obsolete. i have a devilmag (kind of), i have shot e and x mags, and i still own a mech minimag. my only gripe now is the need for the air line to run so far of the side of the gun down to the tank. you can have work arounds for it such as gas thru grips and hardlines, but that doesnt solve the fact that it is still there. yes, i do like my guns reliable and pretty!! the operating pressure for the level10 i can gripe about but that is ok to me, i just make sure my tank stays full.

lets see what the future of agd holds.......

[lord1234]

the devil mag fits all of your requirements:)

[xXHavokXx]

Exactly what I was thinking. I really wanted the hair trigger because it would be light , fast, easy to maintain, and sexy.

For an electronic mag to be what I want it would have to be:

Fast - CPS and BPS are very different. I want to spray death like my angels.
Light - Lighter guns feel better, dumbells are for weight training not PB guns
Dual Detents - I want to use my halo to maximize part one.
Dual Eyes - They work and it is proven.
Shapely - Not bulky like the battery pack
Recoiless - Like DM4's and Angel Fly's

I still believe the mag is the second best made gun on the market (I have to say WDP does better to justify to myself the amount of money spent on angels) but evolution does have to occur to keep it competative. Look at domestic cars, they are starting to look like imports, why? Because imports were killing them in sales.

[adlar]

The Devil Mag is a great refinement of electronic grips for mags, but it still does not solve some of the core 'Mag issues with shoot up, and being able to reach deep into the tank. Frankly, I think even if the shootup were corrected it would still take a lot of convincing for fields/refs to accept that the issue had been resolved. I had a lot of trouble convincing local fields about tank hydro regs when those changed. In a lot of ways AGD and it's partners would have to market a design that seemed brand new to the masses, just to overcome the Mag's history.

[awwdavy]

The inability to shoot under 900 psi is the biggest problem i have with mags. The field I play at often fills only to 2000 or less psi (its 5 bucks admission with all day air if you were wondering why i even go there) and i can sometimes cannot even play a game with the air provided.

[Lord_Whoopass]

Two Words... DEVIL MAG... I love mine...

However I would love to see Warp Slugs and a new board for the Warp feed come out... By a new board I mean one that comes with an On/off switch and 12v mod standard... and with a better way to keep the battery wires sodered to the board... lol had my mag go down in a tourny cuz the battery connector came off my warp board... If you could make the new board a drop in kit that you could purchase at the AGD online store, I am sure alot of people who own Warps would purchase one... plus prolly people would buy new warps with the new board...

[LittlePaintballBoy]

What WOULD it take for me to have a mag as my primary again?

A genie in a bottle.

[usmc8892]

Once I almost bought an Impulse, then a shocker, and then, and I was VERY tempted, a 2005 Angel Speed...but I ended up with 4 'Mags instead!

[Evil1]

I know where your coming from Lohman. I had classic mags for years before I had any RT valves or emags. The classics required little to no maintenance for insane amounts of time. A few drops of oil and you were good to go. When I got back into paintball 2.5 years ago after a 2 year break, The first gun I bought was a MM. I was in love all over again. I loved the gun and will keep it forever. After playing more , I caught wind of the Lvl 10 kit. The level 10 proved to be a nightmare most of the time. It would leak no matter what carrier, shim setup I used and spent many nights working on my level 10 until the sun was almost up again. When I would get the level 10 to work good, It would only be like that for a short period of time. They were just to finicky for my liking. It felt like the old days clipping springs to get things to function properly. When I picked up my first emag, I put an xvalve into it right away. I put the stock emag valve into my MM with a level 7 bolt. When the LX was combined w/ an xvalve, it was a whole new dimension. If one was working the other wasn't. It drove me nuts. I put up with the frequent maintenance for a while until I started seeing all of the other people playing instead of working on their guns. I eventually stopped trying with the LX and swapped out to L7 with no problems. Another thing that was weird was that my xvalve had to be SATURATED with oil to get it to work properly. I ended up using my mech MM more than my upped emag due to problems. I think in a way the emag was over engineered in various areas. This made no room for error. No other popular gun ever seemed to have as many problems and require as much maintenance as my emags.

[trains are bad]

odd. My LX has not changed since I dropped a carrier size after break in. That was like a year ago. It doesn't quite bounce off of really brittle paint though.

However I have never been happy with the ult, in fact I have a thread about it in the WS right now.

I agree somewhat with the topic starter which is why I built my own 'e-mag' without the huge battery and stuff.

I do belive AGD moved too slowly. They should have, at a minimum, came out with an emag that uses ULT technology to eliminate the battery pack. But then there was the smart parts issue.

The operating pressure of the mag will never improve without a complete design overhaul. IMO ICD made the next generation automag with the freestyle. The constant opposing force of the bolt spring, is dead reliable, cheap, and inefficient.


I still love my mag for feel, ergonomics, and low profile. I don't care about the efficiency (much).