rules for expired tanks are dumb...PSYCHE!

[rawbutter]

EDIT: This thread is satire. Please read the whole thing before responding.

Well, looks like I should retire another tank. I've retired two already at the end of their 15 year lifespan, which I wasn't happy about, since they still looked/worked fine, but I bought those ones used, and I really didn't know what had happened to them before I bought them, so I was comfortable letting them go.

My last tank, though? My beautiful MacDev 68/4500? I bought it new in 2006. No one has ever used it except me. I've never dropped it. It's always been in a cover. A nice, thick cover. It's been my primary tank for as long as I've been playing seriously.

And yeah, I know. 15 year rule and all that. But I don't really think those rules were written for people like me. When those bozos (whoever they were) first came up with rules about paintball tanks, they probably had to err on the side of caution. A really zealot might play paintball for six hours a day on half the Saturdays out of the year. They might ask their tanks to make hundreds of thousands of shots during it's lifespan.

But me? I play 4-6 times a year, and on those days I only play for 2 hours. I usually shoot less than 500 shots. My MacDev tank has probably only done about 50,000 shots in its whole life. That's like 100 times less than the "worst case" scenario.

I just really don't want to spend another $150 right now. Seems dumb to me.

[Pyrate Jim]

Those rules are for protecting the field doing the filling.
What you do with your own property is up to you, as is any liability.
That's why I have my own fill stations (Co2 & HPA).
How I drain the tanks is not the fields responsibility. One shot at a time releases them from liability.

[rawbutter]

Those rules are for protecting the field doing the filling.
What you do with your own property is up to you, as is any liability.
That's why I have my own fill stations (Co2 & HPA).
How I drain the tanks is not the fields responsibility. One shot at a time releases them from liability.

Protection? From what? It's not like paintball tanks explode all the time. And besides, everyone knows about the risks. That's just part of the game.

[Tunaman]

Protection? From what? It's not like paintball tanks explode all the time. And besides, everyone knows about the risks. That's just part of the game.

But they DO explode...I've seen it happen and you dont want to be there when it does.

[rawbutter]

But they DO explode...I've seen it happen and you dont want to be there when it does.

It's never happened to me. It's never happened to anyone I know. It sucks that you had to see it, but I don't see why it happening to you means that I have to buy a new tank.

I mean, really. How many people play paintball every year? A million? Three million? And how many tanks explode every year? One? Ten? Even if a thousand tanks explode every year, that's like....less than 1/10 of a percent. Why make such an expensive rule over something so rare?

[Krautla]

It´s a simple rule for your own and everybody else safety around you an your tank.

A tank will cost you 250-300$ (with 2xhydro testing) in it´s 15y lifetime --> It may be super rare to happen, but why take the risk for like ~ 20$ per year.

[rawbutter]

It´s a simple rule for your own and everybody else safety around you an your tank.

A tank will cost you 250-300$ (with 2xhydro testing) in it´s 15y lifetime --> It may be super rare to happen, but why take the risk for like ~ 20$ per year.

It's not just time. It's a lot of money and effort too. I've gotta remove the tanks from the regulators. I've gotta mail them off to someone. And I've got to research and decide who to send my tanks to, what kind to buy when they expire...

The more I think about it, actually, the more I think there's a better way around this problem. Just print my own stickers with a different date on there. Carbon fiber tanks aren't stamped, after all. They just have a sticker under a gel coating. And no one at the field looks too hard at that. Half the time they don't even check.

Yeah...the more I think about it, this is way easier. Printing a fake sticker shouldn't be a problem. I can even make the date kinda old so the worn nature of the tank isn't suspect. And the gel coating..... That's just epoxy resin, right? I've got some of that stuff in my garage. I can just slap my "new" sticker over the old one and then seal it with clear epoxy.

[maniacmechanic]

The way I read the law ,, and I've read it a number of times over the years ,,, It's about transportation ,, DOT laws , if the bottle doesn't " travel " ( it stays on a rental marker all its life ) it TECHNICALLY never has to be rehydroed IMO , of course we Always have to look at the safety aspect of it

[Tunaman]

It's not just time. It's a lot of money and effort too. I've gotta remove the tanks from the regulators. I've gotta mail them off to someone. And I've got to research and decide who to send my tanks to, what kind to buy when they expire...

The more I think about it, actually, the more I think there's a better way around this problem. Just print my own stickers with a different date on there. Carbon fiber tanks aren't stamped, after all. They just have a sticker under a gel coating. And no one at the field looks too hard at that. Half the time they don't even check.

Yeah...the more I think about it, this is way easier. Printing a fake sticker shouldn't be a problem. I can even make the date kinda old so the worn nature of the tank isn't suspect. And the gel coating..... That's just epoxy resin, right? I've got some of that stuff in my garage. I can just slap my "new" sticker over the old one and then seal it with clear epoxy.

That is some real smart stuff there. Besides violating Federal law, you would be endangering other people too. I suppose you run Macro line with a SHP also? Safe right? I don't know how old you are, but I can tell you are too young to know and not old enough to know better.

[rawbutter]

The way I read the law ,, and I've read it a number of times over the years ,,, It's about transportation ,, DOT laws , if the bottle doesn't " travel " ( it stays on a rental marker all its life ) it TECHNICALLY never has to be rehydroed IMO , of course we Always have to look at the safety aspect of it

That's really a regulation more than a law, isn't it? Or is it a mandate? Whatever. But it's not a law. It wasn't written by a senator or congressman. It was just written by some guy that was appointed to the position. I certainly didn't vote for him.

Besides violating Federal law, you would be endangering other people too.

Last time I checked, this is a free country. I'm not responsible for keeping other people safe. The tank is mine. I can do whatever I want with it. The government can't make me give up my own personal property. The 4th Amendment protects me from that.

[Tunaman]

That's really a regulation more than a law, isn't it? Or is it a mandate? Whatever. But it's not a law. It wasn't written by a senator or congressman. It was just written by some guy that was appointed to the position. I certainly didn't vote for him.



Last time I checked, this is a free country. I'm not responsible for keeping other people safe. The tank is mine. I can do whatever I want with it. The government can't make me give up my own personal property. The 4th Amendment protects me from that.

There you have it. Another double standard. According to the Biden administration you ARE required to wear your mask to keep other people safe. Like you said...not a law, it's a mandate which should be unenforceable, made by some guy that I didn't vote for or Congress didn't approve. Only some things suit you right?

[rawbutter]

There you have it. Another double standard. According to the Biden administration you ARE required to wear your mask to keep other people safe. Like you said...not a law, it's a mandate which should be unenforceable, made by some guy that I didn't vote for or Congress didn't approve. Only some things suit you right?

There it is. Just what I was waiting for. Phew. I was actually getting worried that you weren't going to get it.




Okay. Time to fess up. No, I don't actually think that tank rules are dumb. Sorry I lied to you all. But I did it because I was trying to point out the hypocrisy of following hydro rules (which were made to keep people safe) but NOT wearing a mask or taking the covid vaccine (which were also made to keep people safe).

As I've pointed out, tank explosions are exceedingly rare. They're so rare that I can't even find statistics on how often they happen. I can only find news articles about specific explosions, and most of those are about industrial air tanks, not paintball tanks. But just so we have a number, let's say that 30 tanks explode each year for the 3+ million paintball players in the US. That at least makes the math easy, even if that number is stupidly high. That gives us a likelihood of 0.001%, or 1/100,000.

Compare that number, then, to the number of covid deaths, which is just over 700,000 for the 330 million US citizens. That means you have a 0.2% chance of getting covid, or about 1/500, which is about 20 times more likely than being killed by a tank explosion.

And if you're worried about side effects, well, about 8,100 people have died shortly after taking the covid vaccine, and about 390 million doses have been given so far, so that's a death rate of 0.0021%, or about 1/48,000.

There you have it. Your chances of being killed from covid vaccine side effects are definitely higher than your chances of being killed by a tank explosion, but it's still a ludicrously small number. And it's about 100 times more likely that you will catch covid and die (and pass it on to someone else you care about, who might also die). So please, wear your mask when you're out of the house, and get the vaccine. It's the best way to keep us all safe right now.

[Loguzzzzzz]

...So please, wear your mask when you're out of the house, and get the vaccine. It's the best way to keep us all safe right now.

... OH and don't forget to drink YOUR Kool Aid...

[rawbutter]

... OH and don't forget to drink YOUR Kool Aid...

Seriously, though, if the Kool Aid in this case is the vaccine, well, I've already done the math, haven't I? Seems like the much safer bet.

[Loguzzzzzz]

Seriously, though, if the Kool Aid in this case is the vaccine, well, I've already done the math, haven't I? Seems like the much safer bet.

you mean math like this?

[rawbutter]

you mean math like this?

That meme is misrepresenting the government's stance. The CDC only recommends the vaccine for children age 12 and up, not 5 and up. Why? Because it's not as effective for children in the 5-12 age range. The risks outweigh the rewards at that age. So, those kids are better off just wearing masks.

I'm glad you brought this up, actually. I know you were trying to poke holes in my math, but I think instead you pointed out that there is some nuance to this. Taking the vaccine can be the wrong choice for some people, like kids of a certain age, but for the vast majority of adults, taking the vaccine is the right thing to do.

So yeah....don't vaccinate your kids until they're 12 years old, everyone. Make them wear a mask instead.

[Pyrate Jim]

Well, since the thread about tanks is a farce and actually about the virus again, I read an interesting statistic;

In 2021, 214 children 17 years and younger have died from covid nationwide.
In 2021, 303 children 17 years and younger have been shot on the streets of Chicago alone.

[rawbutter]

Well, since the thread about tanks is a farce and actually about the virus again, I read an interesting statistic;

In 2021, 214 children 17 years and younger have died from covid nationwide.
In 2021, 303 children 17 years and younger have been shot on the streets of Chicago alone.

Yeah, that's terrible. What's your point?

[Loguzzzzzz]

I happen to live in California and have 5 year old daughter!
So YEAH THIS IS IMPORTANT TO ME!
My daughter is not in school today to protest this mandate! Hoping this will raise an eyebrow here where we have arguably the worst governor in history. COMPLETE HYPOCRITE. . . . Do as I say, not as I do!
Total 4$$HOLE!

[Tunaman]

I happen to live in California and have 5 year old daughter!
So YEAH THIA IA IMPORTANT TO ME!
My daughter is not in school today to protest this mandate! Hoping this will raise an eyebrow here where we have arguably the worst governor in history. COMPLETE HYPOCRITE. . . . Do as I say, not as I do!
Total 4$$HOLE!

and the liberal morons voted him back in AGAIN. I hope they wallow in their own shunt!

[Nobody]

I happen to live in California and have 5 year old daughter!
So YEAH THIA IA IMPORTANT TO ME!
My daughter is not in school today to protest this mandate! Hoping this will raise an eyebrow here where we have arguably the worst governor in history. COMPLETE HYPOCRITE. . . . Do as I say, not as I do!
Total 4$$HOLE!

And John, it seems that you want to protect and make sure that the safety of your adorable baby girl(which couldn't come from you, cause your ugly ), is 1st and foremost. Any parent shoul and would, so wearing a mask would be an extra layer of protection, likewise making sure that those people around them are vaccinated and are wearing masks when out in the public which can only help keep the vius contained and then less likely to spread.

So like crashing your car into a brick wall. Sure, you can be in a 1950s caddy and not be hurt, but what is safer? That caddy, or a car with crumple zones, airbags while wearing a setbeat? All are layers but only some think it won't happen to them. A virus doesn't care what political, religious, or ethnic group you belong to.

[rawbutter]

I happen to live in California and have 5 year old daughter!

I didn't realize that California had a separate mandate for school kids. I only just looked that up. I've been talking about the national mandate, which doesn't apply to children that young. Sorry for the confusion.

And yes, I can understand why you're scared about your daughter being vaccinated. I actually agree that she shouldn't be vaccinated yet. The CDC hasn't yet cleared the vaccine for children that young, and I believe that politicians should follow the science, not the other way around. So your governor is probably jumping the gun on this.

If it makes you feel any better, though, it's also likely that the "facts" in that meme aren't accurate. Take a look at this. Or this. The truth seems to be that the covid death rate is much higher than the meme suggests, and the ill effects of the vaccine are much lower. So far no children that young have died from the vaccine in any clinical trials.

As for other children, this article explains that for children age 12-17 (about 12 million of whom have received at least one vaccine shot) 14 have died, and 2 of those were suicide (which doesn't count as a vaccine death, I guess ). So, the vaccine might cause maybe 12 deaths in 12 million, or 1 in a million. Compare that to fact that of the 73 million children in the US, 700 have died from covid...or about 9 in one million. I know those numbers are crazy small, but getting the vaccine is still the safer choice...9 times safer. (Even gun violence in schools is a greater risk to kids than the vaccine.) I know that's a lot to take in, but hopefully it helps you to be a little less scared about your daughter.

Also, I'd really like you to take a moment to consider all the other people that your daughter interacts with....people like my wife. My wife is a high school teacher, and the single greatest threat to her safety right now is the kids she is teaching. How messed up is that? It's certainly true that covid is much less of a danger to children, but they can also easily carry the virus and transmit it to adults. And the even crazier thing is that it goes even further than just school. My wife's father just had a stroke this past weekend, and she really wants to go and visit him. But he's 85, and she works in a school. She's scared to death that if she goes to see him, she'll pass on something from one of her kids. And it certainly doesn't help that many of her students aren't vaccinated (even though the vaccine is approved for that age group) because their parents are choosing to trust memes more than science. Therefore, we're staying at home and only calling him on the phone every day, even though we want to be at his house helping him with all the stuff he's dealing with right now.

So yeah, at this moment, I agree that your daughter should skip the vaccine and only wear a mask, because the vaccines haven't been approved for children that young. Yet. But if that changes and the vaccine is approved, I hope that you will trust the scientific consensus more than a meme wandering around Facebook.

[luke]

Did dad get the covid vacc, if so when?
Is your wife vaccinated for c19?

[rawbutter]

Did dad get the covid vacc, if so when?
Is your wife vaccinated for c19?

I really don't get why you asked this question, but....

Yes, my father-in-law got both shots.
Yes, my wife has both shots and a booster.
I have my two doses and I'm planning to get the booster today, as a matter of fact.

Nevertheless, there have been plenty of "breakthrough" cases of covid-19 (people who have been vaccinated but still get sick), especially among the elderly. Almost 7000. Granted, that's only 0.006% of vaccinated people, but still, my father-in-law is elderly, which is higher risk, and my wife works in a school, which is higher risk. Add those two together and, well....I'm actually not sure how the math works out. But it's worse.

And if you think that it's silly that we're concerned about a 0.006% chance of catching covid after being vaccinated, well....some of you here are scared of getting sick from the vaccine itself, even though you only have a 0.0018% chance of dying from vaccine side effects (which is over 3 times less likely). So if you think it's logical to be scared of vaccine side effects, it's even more logical to be concerned about breakthrough cases.

[luke]

Why is your wife concerned about getting covid if shes vaccinated?
Why is she concerned about giving her dad covid when their both vaccinated?
How long after dad got the vaccine shot did he have his stroke?

[rawbutter]

Why is your wife concerned about getting covid if shes vaccinated?
Why is she concerned about giving her dad covid when their both vaccinated?
How long after dad got the vaccine shot did he have his stroke?

I already answered your first two questions in my previous post.

As for the stroke thing, my father-in-law is fine, all things considered. Thanks for asking. The stroke was relatively minor, and not his first. He has a history of....um, low blood pressure? I can't remember what causes his strokes. But it's been going on for a while, long before he got the vaccine. He was in the first group to get vaccinated, so that was... when? February? Something like that.

So no, he did not have a stroke because of the vaccine.

[luke]

Got it, you dont actually believe the vaccine works but you're going to take it anyway.

[rawbutter]

Got it, you dont actually believe the vaccine works but you're going to take it anyway.

You're wrong. I've already explained why. If you don't understand what I actually believe by now, I'm not sure how to make it more clear.

Also, I've asked the mods to lock this thread. It has already served its purpose, and sadly it's now starting to devolve into something else. I don't want to see it suffer the same fate as so many other political threads, so I'd rather it just get locked where it is now.

[luke]

Your backwards logic only makes sense to you.

[Xyxyll]

Your backwards logic only makes sense to you.

And scientists. And doctors. And anyone willing to look at the data. Oh yeah, and billions of people around the world.