Expired HPA tank usefulness

I've wanted to discuss this for a while, regarding the 15 year life of most HPA tanks. Basic knowledge being that a tank has a useful life of 15 years, with hydrotesting required every 5 years. This dictates safe DOT limits for these carbon fiber wrapped tanks that nearly everyone uses now. However, what is to stop people from continued use if they have their own compressor, such as a shoebox? I fill my own air, so as long as I can test my tanks I see no reason to abide by this life limit if playing on private land or just gassing up to have air for testing. Is there a law in place to prevent continued use or is it simply a risk factor, therefore if you decide to continue using a tank after it's life then it's all on you?

I merely ask, because I have a couple tanks that have worked fine, but I would have them hydrotested at a local fire support place before I'd even put a regulator back on. Would the hydrotester even test it if it's past the life date or is it still a liability, even if they are not the owner? Just looking for opinions, as I would consider tanking the risk of using an outdated tank, so long as I can have it tested before I use it again.

I know aluminum HPA tanks have an unlimited life so long as they are hydro'd every 5 years, why is it different for fiber wrapped?

What is stopping people from continued use if they have their own compressor, such as a shoebox?

Nothing is stopping you, that is a risk you yourself are taking.

Is there a law in place to prevent continued use or is it simply a risk factor, therefore if you decide to continue using a tank after it's life then it's all on you?

Short answer risk factor

Would the hydrotester even test it if it's past the life date or is it still a liability, even if they are not the owner?

From my experience once you hit end of life with a tank, if you were to send it in to get hydro tested all that would happen is the facitlity putting a hole through it to make it unusable.

I know aluminum HPA tanks have an unlimited life so long as they are hydro'd every 5 years, why is it different for fiber wrapped?

Because of the nature of a fiber wrapped tank, as I understand a fiber wrapped tank still has an aluminum bottle at its core to hold the air in. But its a thin wall of aluminum compared to an all aluminum tank which is much thicker, it needs to get its strength from somewhere, that's where carbon fiber comes in. Carbon fiber is strong but light, so they wrap the thin shelled bottle in carbon fiber to strengthen it and as an added bonus make the tank lighter. Obviously if the carbon fiber is compromised, you send it in to get tested to make sure it holds pressure, even if the full 5 yrs haven't passed. If for any reason the tank fails, they make the bottle unusable and ship it back.....well at least that's how it was back in the day.

If I said anything incorrectly, I'm sure someone will correct me. Also, this information that I know of is many, many years old; I only came back into paintball June 2018, so I haven't seen if any of this information was updated. Getting new tanks when the previous ones are EoL, will always be preferable. Please don't be a statistic. :nono:

Nobody wants to be a statistic! This is the reason to open up a quick discussion, for anyone else who is curious since I've actually been asked if it's ok to use a tank after it's life for private use. Short answer is, of course, use common sense. They put these regulations in for a reason, to keep people safe. The only thing I really was curious about is if the fiber wrapped tanks have some kind of degradation factor. I know the aluminum core cannot exceed limits on its own, but does the glass fiber degrade faster over time? Is that why they have a limited life? Seems to me bare aluminum would oxidize and degrade faster internally, so a full aluminum tank would eventually fail over a long period and with neglect. Fiber won't degrade, but will it just fatigue itself or does it work like glass and need a max pressure to just shatter it? Otherwise, it would seem to me that a fiber wrapped tank should last longer than an all aluminum one.

Max pressure will obviously burst the tank, however, I'm sure fatigue will also play into it as well. Fiber wrapped tanks should last longer, but I would assume fatigue over time will play its part as well. I understand the main points of it, but I only know what I've read or discussed. Maybe someone a little more knowledgeable in that field will be able to better answer that question, all we can do is hope someone with a better understanding can answer.

Hey Zone. In all my years in paintball I have never specifically been able to find an article or technical bulletin where PHMSA or other related agency has specifically stated or explained their reasoning for justifying a 15 year cylinder life on CF wrapped cylinders. I have looked too. Many times. I've read all the regulations and rules they came up with, but I have never seen the base explanation for the 15 year life. If someone has ever seen that article or bulletin, please please by all means post up it's location.

I have however experienced several high pressure incidents. I have seen regulators removed under high pressure and I have seen regulators break off of cylinders while being filled. I have also seen large bank cylinders fall over and rupture. I have seen HPA lines fail many times. None of those situations have anything to do with cylinder life. Any negative incident with high pressure is potentially life threatening.

Certainly the regulations for HPA are extremely high for good reason...because when there is an issue it typically involves serious consequences. Therefore DOT and PHMSA set standards so high that nobody dies....hopefully.

My feeling is that if a player has enough means to play paintball then likely they have enough means to purchase in date, properly tested equipment...why would anyone ever risk their life, the life of a family member or friend or really anyone elses to save a few dollars? It's simply makes no sense.

It is the United Stated and anyone is free to kill themselves....so to speak....It would seem silly over a few dollars.

In any case here is a link to a carbon fiber cylinder guide from Luxfer. Luxfer used to make quite a bit of tanks for paintball, but not much anymore that I've seen, but the guide is a good one to read.

https://www.luxfercylinders.com/supp...on-manual-2009

The 15 year life was an arbitrary number, as they were developed but no one really tested them, nor watched the possible degradation of them to insure a hard life figure. It is much like 300fps for safe speeds. I do know for a fact that in welding, some oxygen bottles are well over 100 years old and still being used because there is nothing wrong with them.

Nothing stops you from using an expired tank as a house rig. As long as the gel coat is not punctured, the tank is not showing any cracks and you are not really risking the tank in any way, it potentially should be fine. Bare in mind, if you send that tank into hydro, they will make it unusable and no field would risk filling it, if they see the date.

I do feel that the 15y life span is a predetermined date to insure constant buying of new tanks. Yes, it's a conspiracy theory. Make something that has to die, to make the manufacturer have to make more so that they have financial life through the sport.

But this is my own feelings and you should do what you feel is best for you. If you want a house tank. Go for it. If you want all new tanks every 5 years, selling off to be hydro'd tanks, knowing that they will sell. This is your choice, plain & simple.

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Originally Posted by Sandman

I have seen regulators break off of cylinders while being filled

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What do you think would have caused this? Possible defective Reg? OR fatigued reg threads from to much torque.

Does the industry follow proper torque specs now and understand that loctite should not be used. When I had a tank tested on site all the tech could do was shake his head
because it was OVER torqued and had loctite on it.

If you want to be Safe and don't want the integrity of your tank and reg compromised follow the torque spec and don't use loctite.

If the threads are damaged they will also condemn the tank.

The new First Strike Hero "lifetime" tanks are good for like 35 years, but its my understanding at this point there is only one place in the US that is UNISO certified to retest them and they are located in Washington state.


http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/k...rds-March-.jpg

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Originally Posted by going_home

The new First Strike Hero "lifetime" tanks are good for like 35 years, but its my understanding at this point there is only one place in the US that is UNISO certified to retest them and they are located in Washington state.

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I was actually researching this myself after it was mentioned to me at my local hydro tester. It's pricey and of course, only one place can do it. After it's tested there, then it can only be tested using that method, so it still makes morse sense financially to just but a newer tank. I've actually just started picking up cheap, used aluminum rental tanks, getting them hydro tested, then either having them powdercoated or cerakoted.

Ray at Ninja said they are working on getting UNISO certified to retest and releasing their own "lifetime" tank.

Not sure the timeline on these things....

;)

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Originally Posted by going_home

Ray at Ninja said they are working on getting UNISO certified to retest and releasing their own "lifetime" tank.

Not sure the timeline on these things....

;)

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Oh hell yeah, looking forward to that.

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Originally Posted by Beemer

What do you think would have caused this? Possible defective Reg? OR fatigued reg threads from to much torque.

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Beemer, my employee was simply filling the tank for a customer at the store and the reg separated from the bottle while filling it. It was probably already split or cracked. I don't recall what the specific reason was or if we ever determined that. I believe it was probably dropped or cracked while playing. The bottle to gun attachment can take a lot of "break" torque damage if dropped or dove onto while playing. I'm sort of surprised it has not happened more but I guess that a testament to the current manufacturers.

a guy in the uk recycles out of date tanks into gun display stands

they are cut off at an angle about 1/3 of the way back from regulator and filled with epoxy resin to weight them down

you can gut out a knackered HPA reg to save wasting a good one

Attachment 101439

nice.