So I was Thinking about a New Gun Design.....

[kruger]

The only true way to know how to shape the shot is to know the exact pressure in the tank. You could do that with a pressure transmitter. Also, with the miniaturization available today, this idea is not that far fetched. I could see this working with just two solenoids.

[oldironmudder]

Some time ago I had an idea that would help control a marker & give a much more consistent fps reading. You would need a chrono on the end of the barrel like the old PVI Shocker, a pressure sensor that would tell the controller what psi the ball will see & if its an ep marker need another sensor for the LP air that feeds the noid. A tank pressure sensor could also be used & be like the Angel Air & tell you how many shots are left in the tank. You could take it far enough to be crazy but could help, ball weight sensor. By knowing the weight of the ball you could lower the amount the controller would be guessing.

The first shot would always be the worst one since it would be used to start the base for the shooting session. The ball would sit in the breech & be weighed. The controller would take that info & compare it to a permanent chart & base the dwell of the noid on that. Which would give the controller its first chrono reading to adjust the fps on the next shot along with the pressure in the marker.

Just looking at current ECMs in cars & trucks, they take info from coolant temp, air temp, air pressure & more just to figure out how much fuel to inject to try & achieve the best fuel ratio for its current driving condition.

I did a search for injectors, diesel, & watched this video first. Liked it & didnt bother looking for anything else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGwV9ueHcz4

The injector allows several injections to better the overall combustion cycle which would allow for a very very soft burst to get the ball moving. Then after that dump enough to get the ball up to speed. It would also let you get a few quite shots then ramp up like Tom said.


Ok, working thrid shift & thinking this hard is hurting my head.... time to cool down.

[vf-xx]

Haven't we gone over this idea before in some bits?

We're talking about integrating a chrony into the gun again, which I think is a good thing, But that does give some technical issues.

Is there any way to do that and not have it integrated into the barrel?

Would you even still need a bolt, or would you go to a feedgate like an epic?

[nerobro]

Successful gun designs are always simple. Feedgates aren't easy to seal, and run into the mag problem of kicking the ball stack hard, and they're defininitely not simple. Bolts are better, especially once you get the rof up.

I wouldn't suggest integrating a chrony into a gun. There's to many potential ways for that to be a problem. It's a neat trick, but the ref at the chrony is the one that matters.

The spin idea would require some barrel integration. The machining necessary to make that work is pretty simple. Almost dremel simple.

We are looking at several technologies here. First is electronically controlled valving, this has never been done beyond a "digital" implmentation. Second adaptive firing profiles, this has been done in the past, but not always well implemented, and always only applied to maxrof. Third is electronically controlled spin. They should be treated separately for purposes of our discussion. Each technology could be game changing.

[vf-xx]

Ahh, but see, he's saying for an efficency point you'd have to integrate a chrony.

I'd pass on the spin thing for the inital generation of the gun. TBH, you could release a whole series of guns with this idea. Just implement /sell at each stage.

Stage 1 being an injection style firing system, then move on from there.

This gun is sounding very complex from the get go. I think it could be done and it does sound interesting.

As to the idea about weighing the balls: not sure you can really do that for the following reasons:
1) Forcefeed loaders
2) The gun isn't always going to be perfectly vertical.

[mostpeople]

Nice

Tom, I hope you do get back into the sport that you so obviously love/loved. I know if you do you will have the complete support of this community as you always have.

Oh and I'll take SN0002 in dust black kthx.

[nerobro]

To do the injection could be very simple. A nearly off the shelf injector, and some driver circuitry. Especially with using liquid co2 feeding a diesel injector. That's a junkyard solution and cheap.

it's also dead simple. The gun would need three moving parts at that point. The injector pintle, a solionins to move the bolt, and a ram to move the bolt.

I agree, weighing balls is a losing battle. It adds another layer of "easy to break" into the system. the gun orientation could be compensated for, as could gun movements. however it takes some time for the system to settle to get an accurate weight. you'd need to add a gyro and orentation sensors. A system to get accurate weights of paintballs at 20 rounds per second would be a heck of a project in and of itself. .... That said I can think of a couple ways to do it, reliably. none of them are small or simple.

Like "normal" paintball guns, I think the gun would need to operate blind. Use a programed amount of gas for all paintballs, instead of compensating for anything.

the only sensor I think would be "sane" to have that could tell us about ball acceleration would be a fast acting pressure transducer. And I say sane, only loosely. It's an expensive and large part. But it also means not putting eyes down the barrel.

[mostpeople]

My guess is that the ball would simply bounce off the other side of the barrel, and bounce back. Plus with everyone going slightly underbore for efficiency it kind of a moot point?

[nerobro]

That's why I suggested a groove. A groove could keep the ball against the fall wall long enough to be effective. Provided you could get even gas release along the groove. But..... that would require testing :-)

[snoopay700]

Haven't we gone over this idea before in some bits?

We're talking about integrating a chrony into the gun again, which I think is a good thing, But that does give some technical issues.

Is there any way to do that and not have it integrated into the barrel?

Would you even still need a bolt, or would you go to a feedgate like an epic?

For it to be reliable you would need 2 eyes at the end of the barrel, with a larger id than the normal barrel so it is not still being accelerated at that point.

[Rooster]

It seems as if the high tech answer may be no answer at all. What is all goes back to is that you are using a very imperfect power source. Find a way to lose the gas, and a paintball gun becomes as accurate as any other gun. (That was shooting a round projectile without the benifit of rifling)

[vf-xx]

Everybody looks at me like I'm crazy when I tell them I'd like to make a coil gun style paintball gun....

[Ratt]

Everybody looks at me like I'm crazy when I tell them I'd like to make a coil gun style paintball gun....

What do you mean by a 'coil' style gun?

[vf-xx]

Coil Gun

Basically that design, but since the paint is obviously non metallic, you'd have to put a carriage that has some sort of return or safety stop so it doesn't fly out too.