Hyperframe/Level 10

**Buckwheat** · 12-05-2002, 07:20 PM

They told me to try a RT bolt bumper. The bumper on a Classic valve is made of harder material and don't let the LX bolt come back far enough for the sear to catch it all the time. The RT bumper is softer and compresses more to let the bolt go back farther. This must be why the people with RT valves don't have problems.

**hitech** · 12-05-2002, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by Buckwheat
They told me to try a RT bolt bumper.

Same here. I heard that both on this forum and from Centerflag. Mine works fine. However, I haven't put many shots on it (never use in a game yet). I have the level 7 bolt in as the level 10 was getting chewed up from the sear not catching enough. I've since fixed that with a longer on/off pin, but I'm not taking any chances. I'm going to put at least a tank full of shots though it before I put the level 10 bolt back in.

**NPP** · 12-06-2002, 03:29 AM

If the bumper was stopping the bolt coming back far enough wouldn't the bolt stutter, ie try to re-cock, not have enough energy and try to fire again. A bit like a marker on Co2 running out of pressure.

The main problem I sear is the solenoid not having enough power to hit the sear hard enough to get the sear clear of the bolt to let the marker fire.

It would be interesting to hear from AGD how much pressure is required to get the marker to fire with a standard sear and your finger! compared with the CF solenoid.

**hitech** · 12-06-2002, 12:55 PM

The reason to use the RT bumper is to reduce sear/bolt wear. By compressing more it allowes the sear more time to full latch. Because it is softer the bolt doesn't bounce as much which also reduces wear on the sear/bolt.

**NPP** · 12-06-2002, 01:04 PM

I am sure this will give the bolt more time to latch, however, the issue is with the sear clearing the bolt when the marker is fired not on the return.

When the solenoid taps the sear it doesn't move it far enough away, so that the bolt slides over the sear and this causes the chipping along the front edge of the bolt or just won't release and the marker won't fire.

**hitech** · 12-06-2002, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by NPP
When the solenoid taps the sear it doesn't move it far enough away...and the marker won't fire.

Move the solenoid closer to the sear. There are four VERY small allen screws that hold the solenoid in place. Loosen those and move it. Just remember, if it's too close the sear won't catch all the way and will chew up the sear/bolt. You should be able to manually move the solenoid plunger slightly without the sear following. It is easier to see the movement of the sear if you remove the saftey (don't loose the TINY ball bearing

). I doubled checked that the sear was fully latching by pushing on the sear thorugh the saftey hole and making sure it did not move. Hope that helps.

**xen_100** · 12-06-2002, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by NPP
I have tried new batteries, have been suggested the 10.8V rechargeable pack from John Sosta at powerpulse. However I think there is a regulater on the board to limit it to 5v.

I dont know if anyone mentioned this yet...........but the 5 volt reg on the hyper is most likely only for the circuit board. I can say almost certainly that the noid fires from the battery directly. there is a transitor on the board that grounds it to allow it to fire, but it charges from the battery. so if you got the higher voltage battery, it would add more kick to the noid and maybe solve the problem.

I know on my spyder boo-yaah, I run it at 12V and no longer have any problems with it not smacking the sear hard enough to fire.

**hitech** · 12-06-2002, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by xen_100
I know on my spyder boo-yaah, I run it at 12V and no longer have any problems with it not smacking the sear hard enough to fire.

I use a NiMh 9.6 volt battery pack (I did get it to work with a standard 9 volt). I'd be worried about using 12 volts. My Hyperframe (and I'll bet the Boo-Yaah is the same) has a large capacitor that is only rated at 10 volts. Might cause trouble.

**xen_100** · 12-06-2002, 05:39 PM

The boo-yaah cap is rated for 16 volts.

the rest of the circuit works great. I have run the grip as high as 14 volts with out any problems. most IC regulators will regulate the rated output voltage up to about 28 volts input. with the short "on" time of the noid, it shouldn't hurt it. you may just have to replace the Cap with a higher votlage value cap.

**hitech** · 12-06-2002, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by xen_100
The boo-yaah cap is rated for 16 volts.

Then it's probably fine. Better parts in the Boo-Yaah, who would have thought.

**Buckwheat** · 12-06-2002, 08:26 PM

Those with Classics seem to have more problems than those with RT valves.

Would the RT sear have anything to do with this?
I have never seen an RT. The only Mag I have ever seen is my Mini so I don't know what the difference is in the sears.

**steveg** · 12-07-2002, 07:51 PM

Move the solenoid closer to the sear.

I'm curious to know where this idea started , If you really!! think about it and look you will see that moving
the solenoid body from its correct position will actually
shorten the solenoid stroke!

**hostage** · 12-09-2002, 01:46 AM

Try tightening the both screws on the mag, it will make the distance between the on/off. Also remember to OIL!!!
-Doron

**NPP** · 12-09-2002, 04:00 AM

If you check back through this thread you will see that I am running a 10.8 volt through the frame and also milled out the frame to give the solenoid more room. This gives the solenoid more room to accelerate before hitting the sear.

**hitech** · 12-09-2002, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by NPP
If you check back through this thread you will see that I am running a 10.8 volt through the frame and also milled out the frame to give the solenoid more room. This gives the solenoid more room to accelerate before hitting the sear.

I doubt that the solenoid plunger gains anything from accelerating before striking the sear. It doesn't have much throw in the first place. I believe that it needs to have a VERY small gap between the solenoid plunger and the sear. Just enough so the the sear can fully latch on the bolt. If it is too far away the plunger won't move enough to "unlatch" the sear from the bolt.

Since it is not working now, I would move the solenoid as close as possible to the sear.

**NPP** · 12-09-2002, 01:57 PM

John Sosta tried every possible combination with the solenoid. I tried moving it up so there was the smallest amount of movement but this had no effect.

The only combination that worked was with an RT On'Off pin and assembly, the 10.8V battery from the warp and to mill the frame out to give the solenoid more space.

**hitech** · 12-09-2002, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by NPP
The only combination that worked...

Okay, I'm not reading everything. I missed )or forgot) that it is working now. I count only get mine to work with the centerflag on/off pin, which is the same thing as an RT pin.

**NPP** · 12-10-2002, 03:10 AM

I was wondering if anyone had seen any noticeable wear on the sear or bolt using the CF on/Off pin?

I have been told that if the pin is to long it can cause the bolt to ride the sear.

**steveg** · 12-10-2002, 06:43 AM

NPP I've had a hyperframe from when they first came out,
and have been using the long cf pin(now with lvl-10)
I've never seen evidence of wear on any part ,pin,sear
or bolt.(and my job is to find wear in stuff)

In fact "riding the sear"is pretty much how the HF is intended to work.

By the way are you using the Teflon o-ring supplied by
CF on you RT on/off.

Having recently installed an o-ring kit on a friends rt
I noticed that the urethane on/off orings supplied by
AGD have significently more friction that the teflon o-ring
supplied by CF.

That increased friction is not a good thing, after about
3 years the pin on mine, while still sealing perfectly,
will almost fall out of the valve on its own weight.

**NPP** · 12-10-2002, 07:57 AM

I am using the emag on/off o-rings that have a square edge.

**steveg** · 12-10-2002, 08:28 AM

I am using the emag on/off o-rings that have a square edge.

I take it that you mean the very top o-ring i'm refering
to the one around the on/off stem it's self

**NPP** · 12-10-2002, 09:14 AM

Yes I did mean the top O-ring.

I will try the teflon O-ring and see if there is any difference.

Thread: Hyperframe/Level 10

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